Data from lucky bancho about participation in field content

[Supersnow845]

There is retention built into reaching elemental level 60 or rank 25 because that’s a grind in itself

Reaching elemental level 60 even in the current massively nerfed eureka still takes longer than basically all of the non savage content released in 6.0

Sure people may drop after after elemental level 60 but that’s still dozens of hours of content right there

[Jojoya]

There is retention built into reaching elemental level 60 or rank 25 because that’s a grind in itself

Reaching elemental level 60 even in the current massively nerfed eureka still takes longer than basically all of the non savage content released in 6.0

Sure people may drop after after elemental level 60 but that’s still dozens of hours of content right there

But as Shurrikhan points out, you can't tell the player's motive for completing the content. Was there some reward they wanted to get or did they actually enjoy the content itself? Retention isn't getting someone to play through the content a single time, no matter how grindy. Retention is to get that player to keep returning for more because they had fun.

In my case with Eureka, I did it because I wanted to see the story and because we were doing it as a FC group. I want to say we spread it out over 3-4 months getting most of the XP for the elemental ranks through the Challenge Log, not through the FATEs. I wouldn't have done it without the FC group, being with friends made it more bearable.

Even going into Bozja with a FC group, I only got as far as unlocking Delubrum Reginae. I just couldn't stand the content (I think the battlefield theme was a turn off for me). While I was still curious about the story, I turned to YouTube to see it instead of doing it myself.

I don't know if I'll have a similar reaction to such content. Maybe next time they come up with a formula that's fun to me.

SE does offer a way to determine content retention through achievements. If you see someone with an achievement that requires more effort than what it takes to get the reward(s) from content completion, you've got a player that's clearly engaged by the content and would love to get more of the same. I'm not certain which achievements Lucky Bancho can scrape from the API, I know in some cases he's using possession of mounts or minions that are rewarded by quest completion.

As I said before, I'm not against more content like Eureka and Bozja/Zadnor being added. More types of content is better for the game when feasible because different players enjoy different things. But SE does have to weigh participation against development time/resources and other content they want to be producing. Considering how many players are reward focused (see the "I like Variant/Criterion dungeons but won't do them more than once because they don't have rewards I want" comments), planning content becomes difficult. What will give players the most engagement?

Here's to hoping that both a new exploration zone and a new Deep Dungeon will be announced at EU FanFest for those who enjoy that content.

[Shurrikhan]

But as Shurrikhan points out, you can't tell the player's motive for completing the content.

Tbf, that was just an attempt to translate a Ren-ism.

The perceived value and accessibility of content relative to other content with similar value (and perhaps therein also similar accessibility) does give a decent hint at whether or not content is played for intrinsic or extrinsic rewards.

That variant dungeons or high-floors Deep Dungeons, etc., see any completion at all would indicate that some (very small sliver of) people still play content largely for intrinsic motivators, rather than extrinsic ones.

That said...

Retention isn't getting someone to play through the content a single time, no matter how grindy. Retention is to get that player to keep returning for more because they had fun.

Exactly this. We have no way of charting retention with any kind of statistical precision without having access to activity data logs and in turn whether the content met some unknown threshold of (sustained) activity or longevity that would likely be irrelevant to the devs' decision-making anyways.



However, given how many players we can find doing Bozja / Eureka even years later vs. those doing a new Variant/Criterion just a few weeks after its release... even were to ask every player whether they came to that content specifically just to level a particular job or pursue a Relic and exempt then while not exempting those pursuing what few rewards Variant/Criterion Dungeons carry... I don't think that'd be a point in VCs' favor.

[VelKallor]

Exactly this. We have no way of charting retention with any kind of statistical precision without having access to activity data logs and in turn whether the content met some unknown threshold of (sustained) activity or longevity that would likely be irrelevant to the devs' decision-making anyways.

We dont have that metric..but SE does.

I will hazard a guess that this may be why we didnt see a zone like that for Endwalker.

This is no more than speculation, but it MAY be that SE decided to give exploratory zones a pass for THIS expansion, but it may appear in Dawntrail? None of us know what the devs decision making process was, but again ( and I am operating on the proviso I dont know for certain ) it may be possible that they held off, with plans to include it in the new expac, since Endwalker would already have been mapped out beforehand.

All we can do for now is wait till the other Fanfests to happen, as we seem to be getting the full picture in stages. The fact the trailer was partial MIGHT be the key as to how and when the full scope of the new expac will be revealed.

[Renalt]

Me, a smooth brain, when conversations start to get REAL analytical.

[xbahax92]

Why do people have to justify player participation in any content?!

"I dont like Custom Deliveries, devs should stop creating this!"
"I dont like Ultimates, devs should stop creating this!"
"I dont like PVP, devs should stop creating this!"
"I dont like Glamours, devs should stop creating this!"

Why do Devs have to cater to your likings, anyway?
If you dont like it, don't do it. I'm not a fan of every piece of content either. So why forcing your dislikes onto others?
Stop acting like your opinion only matters.
And instead of whining about how bad or boring content, give proper feedback.
The only thing that you're allowed to complain is the lack of communication. It's hilarious that we have to rely on a damn Famitsu article to get more information.

This isn't aimed at anyone particularly, but to all forum users btw.

[Oizen]

Why do people have to justify player participation in any content?!

"I dont like Custom Deliveries, devs should stop creating this!"
"I dont like Ultimates, devs should stop creating this!"
"I dont like PVP, devs should stop creating this!"
"I dont like Glamours, devs should stop creating this!"

Why do Devs have to cater to your likings, anyway?
If you dont like it, don't do it. I'm not a fan of every piece of content either. So why forcing your dislikes onto others?
Stop acting like your opinion only matters.
And instead of whining about how bad or boring content, give proper feedback.
The only thing that you're allowed to complain is the lack of communication. It's hilarious that we have to rely on a damn Famitsu article to get more information.

This isn't aimed at anyone particularly, but to all forum users btw.

I agree, thats why they should make the content they apparently stopped making because someone didnt like it and give me my Bozja continuation.

[xbahax92]

I agree, thats why they should make the content they apparently stopped making because someone didnt like it and give me my Bozja continuation.

But people make it out to be based on popularity, what content should exist and what shouldn't. It's not really far fetched.

[Shurrikhan]

Why do people have to justify player participation in any content?!

Because there are (increasingly, it would seem) limited development hours, and we would logically want to maximize players' enjoyment available through what the game has on offer (in reasonable practice, not just theoretically).

Sometimes that means bringing in people of very specific wants (e.g., those whose goals are almost solely Savage and Ultimate, or solely Island Sanctuary) by providing them just enough content enough to buoy player numbers and subs even if said content sees relatively little breadth or replayability...

...But generally, and especially if forced to choose between two kinds of mid-range "alternative content", it makes sense to prefer the content that provides the greatest product of the number of participants, average (subjectively perceived) quality, enjoyable hours (so far as they'd still find said content more worthwhile to them than other forms of content).

[xbahax92]

Because there are (increasingly, it would seem) limited development hours, and we would logically want to maximize players' enjoyment available through what the game has on offer (in reasonable practice, not just theoretically).

Sad to see this is the norm. Just because the community doesnt participate in content, the Devs should stop working on it and create 1 week lasting content.
If there are people that like to see more Variant Dungeons, let them be.
If there are people that like to see more Exploration Zones, let them be.
I dont understand why a variety of content cannot coexist. Just because Indie company Square Enix is understaffed?
Well, maybe it's time to hire more employee's?