Devs Please Be Careful Not To Disrespect Real Native Cultures In The New World

[Cach]

South american servers would basically be a double of materia, empty worlds with barely anyone on them, no cross DC travel because of "limitations" too, it'd basically be a wasteland from day 1, so no, no point.

https://gamerescape.com/2023/07/29/n...fan-fest-2023/

Naoki Yoshida: I do want to mention that the technical aspects of traveling between North America, Europe, Japan, and Oceania data centers is built. That said, we need to observe the culture between the different regions- it differs significantly. Is it okay to just suddenly open the floodgates for everyone to intermingle? I’m afraid we still don’t have enough information to have the confidence to open that up because we would have different communities jumbled together. We’d like to continue to look at how DC travel is being utilized and what the situation is like and take our time to assess before we consider inter-region travel.

If the question is “Are you considering it or not?” Yes, we are considering it. I’ve been having many discussions with our super server engineer, whether we can do it this way or that way. We’ve been having these meetings on multiple occasions and we had one recently even. Whenever we have these discussions, we always end up saying this… “[groaning sound] Oh, we’re gonna have to talk about this in the next meeting.”

So I mean, yeah there are many challenges that we have to overcome from a technical perspective and infrastructure perspective. But a challenge is a challenge and we want to overcome that challenge and we don’t want to give up on that idea. I think that’s what makes my team very talented and that’s what their strength is. We’re tying to figure out how we can work this out.

They already have the tech but don't want to implement it.
Reading between the lines it looks to me like "Japanese gamers will get upset if the see people speaking english"

[VelKallor]

Ivtrix: I dont know how much reading you do, but theres a book by Gary Jennings, "Aztec", I recommend it.

[Ranaku]

There is no issue giving an under represented culture a moment via high fantasy, but if you all remember the in game Native American headdress controversy, which actually did upset people of specific communities, this expansion has to tread carefully.

Again, I think it’s really cool that they are doing this, but one misstep, and the media will never let it down. Especially after the comments about FFXVI being supposedly racist. Division III needs to be careful with racial comments, and how they represent cultures from now on.

I hope that the players, especially here in North America are not shy to mention if the dev team messes up on any of the representation. They need to hear it from us first. I do not believe the devs are intentionally racist, or harmful to any group of people. Yoshi P and his team are much more progressive than the majority of Japan. I do think they will listen to us if such a misstep happens. There have been numerous missteps that got fixed.

Pal it's a fantasy game not the real world. Dunno what you guys are on but they really respectfully handled the new world tribes in the bluemage questlines and in the past they also showed some mongolian culture etc. with the Xaela tribes.

The people who cry about it are usually dumb white knights who aren't even part of these groups of people.

Also Japanese don't give a kupo about your feelings usually, seen by literally every game and anime having a fascist empire in them. xD Don't really get how a mere outfit is the worst but the garlean empire gassing innocent people, yes they did that in Ala Mhigo, is totally ok! People and their morals are weird.

[Ivtrix]

Ivtrix: I dont know how much reading you do, but theres a book by Gary Jennings, "Aztec", I recommend it.

we dont agree on a lot but i will add it to the queue, thanks for the recommendation

Im currently reading through "From Cold War to Hot Peace" by Michael McFaul, modern history is a lot more my preference but I will give it a read

[VelKallor]

we dont agree on a lot but i will add it to the queue, thanks for the recommendation

Im currently reading through "From Cold War to Hot Peace" by Michael McFaul, modern history is a lot more my preference but I will give it a read

OOOOH thank you in return. Ill grab it on Kindle. I dont know if it was HS reading material for you, but Shirers Rise and Fall of the Third Reich was part of our curriculum. Jennings wrote a second book for this series , btw, called Aztec Autumn. Brilliant. Haunting.

[catgirlcrisis]

/facepalm

Okay, I get people are well meaning with this sort of thing...but for the love of all that's holy AND unholy, people can't walk on eggshells and still have a functional world. And I mean real world. Mistakes happen, and that's Human. If people aren't trying to insult people, folks need to stop attacking them for it.

FICTIONAL worlds are FICTIONAL. They may resemble or take ques from our world, but they aren't our world.

The worst part is when it's selective outrage. Heavensward was not an attack on Catholics and Christians, despite taking inspiration from middle-ages Europe (specifically France/Franks). I don't recall any "controversy" about "killing the pope" (in fact, it's a meme). No one came to the defense of Europeans being portrayed badly by Ishgardians.

At the end of the day, homages and the like are just that, and this team are not insulting in their intent. If people have issues with specific things, and are PART OF THE COMMUNITIES that are supposedly slighted, that's fine, they can voice their concerns. But people need to stop selective outrage (on behalf of some groups but not others) and taking on offense for the sake of other people instead of letting those people speak for themselves (things like "white savior complex"; people are able to speak for themselves, let them - you can support them, but don't deign to speak in their place, let them have their own voice).

.

If people aren't intentionally insulting, then that's what matters. A perceived MAYBE insult isn't it. No more eggshells, please.

works of fiction can have influence from the real world. like, you know that, right? and fictional works can, subsequently, have a real impact on how real world matters are perceived - ESPECIALLY in regards to real-world cultures. you bring up HW, but HW could read as a critique of corruption in the Catholic Church, or how corruption can run deep in any organized religion. kungane is literally based on asian cultures and countries. this is such a dumb, nothing argument.

i'll put in my two cents as a latina: i need to see more of this expansion before i can fully judge it, but so far, i'm not enjoying this take on latinoamerican cultures as one blendered mix of just... whatever. all latinoamerican countries have such distinct practices, histories, societies, etc. it's not uncommon for people to just assume we're all the same. but latinoamerican cultures are actually very diverse, and i'd find it incredibly insulting (and extremely disappointing) to have a game i love reflect this interpretation that latinoamerican cultures are all the same by being condensed down into one monolithic mush

edit: i have more to say! oops! i already saw someone say:

It's an RPG. This looks like a "where the story is going" teaser (and where it is going looks pretty interesting). And those conspicuous people must be the main cast that older players would recognise?

Plus you get to fight some kind of giant two-headed Mayincaztec demon thing with giant swords. Cool.

like... come on. "some giant two-headed Mayincaztec demon thing"? are you kidding me? i get that this is a funny quip and all, so don't take this to heart or anything, but that's such an insensitive thing to say that most non-latino people probably wouldn't even bat an eye over - and we had, what, not even three minutes of teaser footage released? i'm tentatively willing to trust square enix, but their previous track record leaves little room for me to be hopeful, and comments like this don't help solidify that, either.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I'm a mexican, and the trailer shows inspiration from mesoamerican cultures, not native american.
Plenty of mexican friends are excited too, and we find it funny is non-mexicans who usually get offended with this...

As a latino, I find it disgusting how white folk have gotten this agenda to be "offended" for us as if we asked for them to be our voice for cultural appropriation. Its so obvious that these people only care to control the narrative and to inflate their own egos and not actually care about the people they're trying to defend. Case in point, when people started to try to cancel Speedy Gonzalez because its racist but they never realized most hispanic groups actually like the character.

Seriously for anyone who does this. Please stop. All what you're doing is preventing for other cultures to be shared in media because somehow non-European culture is categorized as a political agenda rather than an interest and expression of it

YOU DONT SPEAK FOR US, NOR DO YOU SPEAK FOR OTHER CULTURES. As a latino, I'm really excited to see South American representation in FFXIV.

[RitsukoSonoda]

As a latino, I find it disgusting how white folk have gotten this agenda to be "offended" for us as if we asked for them to be our voice for cultural appropriation. Its so obvious that these people only care to control the narrative and to inflate their own egos and not actually care about the people they're trying to defend. Case in point, when people started to try to cancel Speedy Gonzalez because its racist but they never realized most hispanic groups actually like the character.

Seriously for anyone who does this. Please stop. All what you're doing is preventing for other cultures to be shared in media because somehow non-European culture is categorized as a political agenda rather than an interest and expression of it

YOU DONT SPEAK FOR US, NOR DO YOU SPEAK FOR OTHER CULTURES. As a latino, I'm really excited to see South American representation in FFXIV.

TBH people like that exist in every culture. The difference is that people in the US tend to make it a point to be as obnoxious as possible with it so it's far more noticeable.

[LinaAkayomi]

TBH people like that exist in every culture. The difference is that people in the US tend to make it a point to be as obnoxious as possible with it so it's far more noticeable.

Not really. Getting offended FOR OTHERS (Without even caring to ask, mind you) is something that I've only seen from white Statesians. I haven't seen any other demographic group jump ip trying to whiteknight others, at all.

[catgirlcrisis]

y'all have been nothing but nasty, mean, and dismissive to OP. all of you crying and whining about how "don't speak on this if you aren't latino!" are probably not even latino yourselves, but you're so quick to jump in and isolate this fight into Latinos vs. Everyone Else. as a latino... i find this extremely weird behavior! hm! why might Non-latinos want people who are Not Latinos to shut up about a Latino Issue? could it be... to weaken Latino voices being amplified...? could it be... to silence valid concerns being raised? huh... maybe, just maybe...

it's just jawdropping to see so many people raise a "it's a fictional world with fictional cultures and therefore has absolutely no real effect on the real-world" argument regarding a game which draws from real-life inspiration to promote certain messaging in its themes. for example: Fascism... is bad. Colonialism and imperialism... is bad. Capitalist systems...are convenient for the wealthy, who can afford luxury, but are quick to screw over non-subservient working class people. yes, it's a fictional story. so are all of Aesop's fables, and yet i really hope y'all clearly had no issues comprehending those as stories used to teach when y'all were kids. the complete refusal to engage with a story and its themes critically is astounding. FFXIV doesn't ask much of the player, either. like, y'all realize fictional stories have always had, and will always have, an impact on real-world people, real-world societies, and real-world perceptions of cultures, right?

i have no problem discussing something like this with other latinos - i, myself, am really excited to see more of latinoamerican culture have the spotlight! i love to see that other latinos are really excited about this new expansion and are picking up on inspiration from indigenous cultures, from countries like brasil and peru! but when i engage other latinos in a discussion like that, we think critically about ALL the implications a story, its cast, and its themes may have, and i expect non-latinos to be able to do this too. if you're a non-latino, you're allowed to go, "i may be overly cautious here, but i hope square enix (a company with a not-so-perfect track record, but which has at least attempted to show some decency and respect to other cultures and depictions of those cultures) is careful with their representation here..." that's literally such a non-issue. if you're going to jump to "CANCEL CULTURE" and "WOKE SJW TWITTERITE SNOWFLAKES" (and "you're not even latino!" when you, yourself, aren't latino either) instead of, i dunno, bothering to critically engage with something, then you honestly don't deserve to be heard at all. leave the real discussions to people who are willing to give a shit.