Devs Please Be Careful Not To Disrespect Real Native Cultures In The New World

[DiscoDuck]

Wont somebody PLEASE think of the REAL lizard people?!

[Renathras]

/facepalm

Okay, I get people are well meaning with this sort of thing...but for the love of all that's holy AND unholy, people can't walk on eggshells and still have a functional world. And I mean real world. Mistakes happen, and that's Human. If people aren't trying to insult people, folks need to stop attacking them for it.

FICTIONAL worlds are FICTIONAL. They may resemble or take ques from our world, but they aren't our world.

The worst part is when it's selective outrage. Heavensward was not an attack on Catholics and Christians, despite taking inspiration from middle-ages Europe (specifically France/Franks). I don't recall any "controversy" about "killing the pope" (in fact, it's a meme). No one came to the defense of Europeans being portrayed badly by Ishgardians.

At the end of the day, homages and the like are just that, and this team are not insulting in their intent. If people have issues with specific things, and are PART OF THE COMMUNITIES that are supposedly slighted, that's fine, they can voice their concerns. But people need to stop selective outrage (on behalf of some groups but not others) and taking on offense for the sake of other people instead of letting those people speak for themselves (things like "white savior complex"; people are able to speak for themselves, let them - you can support them, but don't deign to speak in their place, let them have their own voice).

.

If people aren't intentionally insulting, then that's what matters. A perceived MAYBE insult isn't it. No more eggshells, please.

[ItWillBeOkay]

/facepalm

Okay, I get people are well meaning with this sort of thing...but for the love of all that's holy AND unholy, people can't walk on eggshells and still have a functional world. And I mean real world. Mistakes happen, and that's Human. If people aren't trying to insult people, folks need to stop attacking them for it.

FICTIONAL worlds are FICTIONAL. They may resemble or take ques from our world, but they aren't our world.

The worst part is when it's selective outrage. Heavensward was not an attack on Catholics and Christians, despite taking inspiration from middle-ages Europe (specifically France/Franks). I don't recall any "controversy" about "killing the pope" (in fact, it's a meme). No one came to the defense of Europeans being portrayed badly by Ishgardians.

At the end of the day, homages and the like are just that, and this team are not insulting in their intent. If people have issues with specific things, and are PART OF THE COMMUNITIES that are supposedly slighted, that's fine, they can voice their concerns. But people need to stop selective outrage (on behalf of some groups but not others) and taking on offense for the sake of other people instead of letting those people speak for themselves (things like "white savior complex"; people are able to speak for themselves, let them - you can support them, but don't deign to speak in their place, let them have their own voice).

.

If people aren't intentionally insulting, then that's what matters. A perceived MAYBE insult isn't it. No more eggshells, please.

Because Catholics and Christian people in general are used to be portrayed in many different ways in games and movies. I'm a Catholic and had absolutely no problem with Heavensward because it's a work of fiction and SE didn't even try to represent my religion, they just used some elements to portray their vision of "holy war" in a fantasy game. I just suppose we have a bit thicker skin since religious people are offended all the time in the modern world.

Meanwhile many minorities are like "you have to portray us only in a 100% positive way or we will punish you and cancel you, you will regret it for the rest of your life!!!". It's so tiresome.

[Zsolen]

We even stopped calling them "Beast" Tribes.
As a South American im glad about the feel of the Andine areas, Machu Pichu looks good.

What i actually would demand of the devs is another thing.
S O U T H A M E R I C A N D A T A C E N T E R S

I don't like that the new continent is basically south america and we don't have datacenters, really hard to always be depending on VPNs and always playing above +150ms.

With how the data center in Meracydia is going, it will likely be a while.

Because Catholics and Christian people in general are used to be portrayed in many different ways in games and movies. I'm a Catholic and had absolutely no problem with Heavensward because it's a work of fiction and SE didn't even try to represent my religion, they just used some elements to portray their vision of "holy war" in a fantasy game. I just suppose we have a bit thicker skin since religious people are offended all the time in the modern world.

Meanwhile many minorities are like "you have to portray us only in a 100% positive way or we will punish you and cancel you, you will regret it for the rest of your life!!!". It's so tiresome.

Yep. Square tends to put the Catholic Church in a bad light. I never took it seriously, and HW is even my favorite expansion.

[catgirlcrisis]

/facepalm

Okay, I get people are well meaning with this sort of thing...but for the love of all that's holy AND unholy, people can't walk on eggshells and still have a functional world. And I mean real world. Mistakes happen, and that's Human. If people aren't trying to insult people, folks need to stop attacking them for it.

FICTIONAL worlds are FICTIONAL. They may resemble or take ques from our world, but they aren't our world.

The worst part is when it's selective outrage. Heavensward was not an attack on Catholics and Christians, despite taking inspiration from middle-ages Europe (specifically France/Franks). I don't recall any "controversy" about "killing the pope" (in fact, it's a meme). No one came to the defense of Europeans being portrayed badly by Ishgardians.

At the end of the day, homages and the like are just that, and this team are not insulting in their intent. If people have issues with specific things, and are PART OF THE COMMUNITIES that are supposedly slighted, that's fine, they can voice their concerns. But people need to stop selective outrage (on behalf of some groups but not others) and taking on offense for the sake of other people instead of letting those people speak for themselves (things like "white savior complex"; people are able to speak for themselves, let them - you can support them, but don't deign to speak in their place, let them have their own voice).

.

If people aren't intentionally insulting, then that's what matters. A perceived MAYBE insult isn't it. No more eggshells, please.

works of fiction can have influence from the real world. like, you know that, right? and fictional works can, subsequently, have a real impact on how real world matters are perceived - ESPECIALLY in regards to real-world cultures. you bring up HW, but HW could read as a critique of corruption in the Catholic Church, or how corruption can run deep in any organized religion. kungane is literally based on asian cultures and countries. this is such a dumb, nothing argument.

i'll put in my two cents as a latina: i need to see more of this expansion before i can fully judge it, but so far, i'm not enjoying this take on latinoamerican cultures as one blendered mix of just... whatever. all latinoamerican countries have such distinct practices, histories, societies, etc. it's not uncommon for people to just assume we're all the same. but latinoamerican cultures are actually very diverse, and i'd find it incredibly insulting (and extremely disappointing) to have a game i love reflect this interpretation that latinoamerican cultures are all the same by being condensed down into one monolithic mush

edit: i have more to say! oops! i already saw someone say:

It's an RPG. This looks like a "where the story is going" teaser (and where it is going looks pretty interesting). And those conspicuous people must be the main cast that older players would recognise?

Plus you get to fight some kind of giant two-headed Mayincaztec demon thing with giant swords. Cool.

like... come on. "some giant two-headed Mayincaztec demon thing"? are you kidding me? i get that this is a funny quip and all, so don't take this to heart or anything, but that's such an insensitive thing to say that most non-latino people probably wouldn't even bat an eye over - and we had, what, not even three minutes of teaser footage released? i'm tentatively willing to trust square enix, but their previous track record leaves little room for me to be hopeful, and comments like this don't help solidify that, either.

[Genbe197]

. kungane is literally based on asian cultures and countries...............

i'll put in my two cents as a latina: i need to see more of this expansion before i can fully judge it, but so far, i'm not enjoying this take on latinoamerican cultures as one blendered mix of just... whatever. all latinoamerican countries have such distinct practices, histories, societies, etc. it's not uncommon for people to just assume we're all the same. but latinoamerican cultures are actually very diverse,

Soooo You not even gonna talk about your hypocrisy? You think every european country is a monarchy? The history of Fae which comes from mostly european germanic, and gallic tribal people but it was blended with european monarchy. Thats what fantasy does. It blends things. Much like Kugane that blends Japaense lore with Mongolian lore mixed with more stuff. This is eorzea, not earth. They are not gonna perfectly represent the nuances in your culture. It will be blended with random stuff. It could be a mezoamerican deity with a navajo government and a inca diet if they want to.

[Garnix]

Especially after the comments about FFXVI being supposedly racist. Division III needs to be careful with racial comments, and how they represent cultures from now on.

So because a minority of people are saying some stupid nonsense (and will always do, based on anything), they should change their creative vision?
Why?....

[Karious]

I don't care. People crying on Twitter don't matter. Have fun with it. It's a video game.

[AwesomeJr44]

This meme is XIV right now for a lot of people.

People who never liked MMOs came in and acted like the person on the left, and now a bunch of us who have loved XIV for years have seen it altered in a such a massive way that it no longer resembles the game we loved. Everything has been watered down and made simpler and less fun for the sake of people who never liked the genre that XIV was and was supposed to be. Just look at the relics as an example. Relics are a standard MMO grind, but now they're a braindead tome vendor because grinding is too hard/boring for people who don't like MMOs. Those people insisted that an MMO should abandon the genre it was supposed to be in because people who don't like MMOs want this game to be something it's not. Bozja and Eureka were designed for people who love MMOs, the Manderville relics were designed for people who hate MMOs. There's also far less content per patch because people who don't like MMOs only want to log in once every four months.

And now that the veteran fanbase is upset with these changes, we're being told to just leave because the game 'was never for us anyways' by people who hate everything Final Fantasy XIV used to be.

EDIT: This is pretty off-topic for the thread, so I might go repost this as it's own thread.

[Karious]

*snip*

Off topic or not, you couldn't have said it any better. Thank you for putting my concerns as a long time player into words.

Gotta cater to the normies, clubbers and second lifers now. "If you don't like the changes you were never a real fan and should just quit." Smh.