No exploratory content

[Shurrikhan]

True. It also doesn't get better if another iteration isn't made because people it wasn't designed for didn't like it. Relics and exploratory zones weren't originally designed or intended for the target audience of the Manderville weapons. It's clear that a shift in target audience has occurred, and unless it shifts back we won't be getting proper exploratory content at all.

There are some suggestions not worth seriously/furtherconsidering because their costs would obviously be too high to those who already mostly enjoy the content.

But... who and what was being dismissed out of hand on the basis that they must not like the content / must hate MMOs? A suggestion to slightly improve the grind length and reward schemes of Exploratory Missions, from someone who'd played through both.

???

Or was that a truly terrible mismatch between quote and reply?

[IkaraGreydancer]

True. It also doesn't get better if another iteration isn't made because people it wasn't designed for didn't like it. Relics and exploratory zones weren't originally designed or intended for the target audience of the Manderville weapons. It's clear that a shift in target audience has occurred, and unless it shifts back we won't be getting proper exploratory content at all.



Why is it so hard for some to understand that the people who complained about Eureka/Bozja when it was current and the people who are complaining that there's no EW exploratory zone are two entirely different groups of people? The people who complained about Eureka/Bozja got what they wanted, the people complaining now are not those guys, we're the people who had some of our favorite content taken away in exchange for a glorified tome weapon vending machine.



That's not an issue with the content, that's an issue with human nature. Most people don't bother to work on spawning S rank hunts or scouting A ranks for trains either. Your point is invalid.



Maybe you think this because you don't like actual MMOs? That's a valid opinion to have, but if you don't like MMOs, that would explain why you don't like content that is designed to emulate an MMO.

When did I ever say they were the same group? Oh right...I didn't. I even specified "some of you" but you know...reading is hard sometimes.

Yes it IS an issue with the content cause if spawning NMs was fun more would be helping. That wasn't the case. To call that invalid is just dumb. I'd be willing to bet that's why they got rid of most of that in Boz.

Also who made you the be all opinion on who does and doesn't like MMOs? You don't get to just say "Don't like Eureka style content? You must not like MMOs". No that's not how that works. Last I checked MMOs aren't just excessive grinds that are padded to waste time. Things like dungeons and raids are also a key part of MMOs. One can like the later 2 and not the former and still like MMOs. Come on now...

[Jojoya]

Maybe you think this because you don't like actual MMOs? That's a valid opinion to have, but if you don't like MMOs, that would explain why you don't like content that is designed to emulate an MMO.

It sounds like your definition of a MMO is very narrow when if you look up the definition of MMO it's rather broad.

Massively Multiplayer Online - an online game with a large number of players online at the same time on the same server. That's it.

The MMO genre in general has evolved quite a bit since the old days of the original Everquest, Runescape, Ultima Online, etc.

If you want to say that Eureka and Bozja are for players that like old school style MMOs, I would agree with that. It's still subjective opinion, though.

[ElysiumDragon]

I enjoyed Eureka, but... it would almost certainly have had greater community engagement and had been more enjoyable to the average player if the EXP requirements for leveling up were lower, leaving that grind instead to the horizontal progression of Relics instead of something that'd more inflexibly split apart its players across a given zone.



They're not each being called out because they've only collectively --not individually-- had the kind of impact or reward-access that Exploratory Missions have had and because we're literally in a thread about Exploratory Missions.

In a thread about Exploratory Missions, you can expect Exploratory Missions to get a larger share of the discourse even if other content forms were just as good/bad/neutral in regard to a given criteria.

Moreover, a critique doesn't stop being valid just because it doesn't include every other item that might also meet its description.



That would imply that the only (respectable) enjoyment one can get out of MMOs to large-zone mob- and FATE grinds...

I like both, in the right contexts, but liking other parts of the MMO experience more than that aspect in particular doesn't mean that one doesn't like/love MMOs, let alone that they hate them.

__________

Again, I like Exploratory Missions. I certainly think they're a more fitting, efficient, and lucrative content form than the likes of Variant/Criterion Dungeons, and would rather have EMs than any other form of "Side-content". I'm going through Bozja again right now on this forum alt. But that content doesn't get better over successive iterations from refusing to parse criticisms of it.



What seems about the sweet spot to you, in terms of vertical grind progression for an EM? How might Bozja have been encouraged long-term play? And are there other sorts of novel mechanics or intrinsic motivators that you'd like to see in a new Exploratory Mission in Dawntrail, if we get one?

So I think Eureka nailed it with regards to long-term play, with noticeable gil rewards (everyone loves gil) tied to bunny chests and the like, as well as having super rare and valuable items that maintain their value to this day, and the Eureka armor sets encouraging repeat visits.

As for Bozja, I'd argue it was about the right amount of grindy for the relic questline, with several ways to make the grind a lot easier if you knew what to do. That, and I feel Bozja overall handled instanced content better despite accessibility issues, with several different pieces of content compared to Eureka only having BA.

My ideal relic zone would have Eureka's aesthetic, bunny fates, community, and alternative reward incentives, with Bozja's progression grind, ability to level jobs inside the instance, and instances (though the instances should ideally be either soloable or not gatekeep relic progression, and be far easier to spawn).

[IkaraGreydancer]

Say they did add another yalls complaints would then shift to "they're not doing anything new and things are just formulaic now". There is no pleasing some of you. Interesting to see a "These zones are for MMO lovers" when most folks I saw in these zones sat on their ass while a small group does the work (namely in Eureka). The only reason Boz escaped this somewhat is because the FATEs requires some form of contribution. But if in order to be an MMO lover you have to like long drawn out padded grinds then maybe being one is detrimental. Eureka and Boz get boring fast and only serve as time wasters after awhile.

[KageTokage]

I've always associated some degree of grinding with the genre and the gameplay honestly starts feel unfulfilling to me if there isn't any tangible sense of progress.

For that reason the initial post-expansion period where I'm leveling everything to the cap tends to feel the most interesting to me, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Koros]

Say they did add another yalls complaints would then shift to "they're not doing anything new and things are just formulaic now". There is no pleasing some of you. Interesting to see a "These zones are for MMO lovers" when most folks I saw in these zones sat on their ass while a small group does the work (namely in Eureka). The only reason Boz escaped this somewhat is because the FATEs requires some form of contribution. But if in order to be an MMO lover you have to like long drawn out padded grinds then maybe being one is detrimental. Eureka and Boz get boring fast and only serve as time wasters after awhile.

"Yeah let's never get rid of slavery because then people will complain about gender inequality next"

[Payadopa]

I enjoy variant dungeons.

Same. It's a big step in the right direction. Same with Criterion. More, please.