Every dungeon should be a Variant Dungeon

[Ath192]

I get it, it's neat and different.



The problem is after the first few times the novelty wears off. Then people will want to go the fastest route. No more variation.

I think so, but you need to read the whole post in order to understand how the issue you brought up would be handled.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I think so, but you need to read the whole post in order to understand how the issue you brought up would be handled.

It then it's just different dungeons and not the same either.



For variant to work it'd have to be the whole system or it's just not the same. Randomly deciding a path is what we currently have.

[Ath192]

It then it's just different dungeons and not the same either.



For variant to work it'd have to be the whole system or it's just not the same. Randomly deciding a path is what we currently have.

Perhaps you are looking at this differently than what is envisioned. Right now, variant dungeons have several routes you can pick and several variables that can happen. The difference is that the choice of the set of variables is done by the players, unfortunately, surely there is a most efficient path that will become standard because try hards like to min max.

So alternatively, you keep the variant dungeon design, with its paths and variables, but when you load into the instance the server, not the player, determines what variables are going to apply on that specific instance. Therefore, the dungeon offers several different experiences to the player when they revisit it via roulette or direct queue, and is more enjoyable.

To me, given the design being the same, with the only difference being who decides what variables get chosen, it is comparative enough to consider it an evolution of the same thing. However, that is getting bogged down in the details.

The important question is. Would you find variations of the dungeons you run enjoyable? There is no right or wrong answer here, just a feeling to the feedback in question.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Perhaps you are looking at this differently than what is envisioned. Right now, variant dungeons have several routes you can pick and several variables that can happen. The difference is that the choice of the set of variables is done by the players, unfortunately, surely there is a most efficient path that will become standard because try hards like to min max.

So alternatively, you keep the variant dungeon design, with its paths and variables, but when you load into the instance the server, not the player, determines what variables are going to apply on that specific instance. Therefore, the dungeon offers several different experiences to the player when they revisit it via roulette or direct queue, and is more enjoyable.

To me, given the design being the same, with the only difference being who decides what variables get chosen, it is comparative enough to consider it an evolution of the same thing. However, that is getting bogged down in the details.

The important question is. Would you find variations of the dungeons you run enjoyable? There is no right or wrong answer here, just a feeling to the feedback in question.

I guess my point is that is kind of what we have already. In a sense, every dungeon is just a variation of another with a new coat of paint. That's what I was getting at, and why I don't see the server randomly choosing a path as anything really new.

[Ath192]

I guess my point is that is kind of what we have already. In a sense, every dungeon is just a variation of another with a new coat of paint. That's what I was getting at, and why I don't see the server randomly choosing a path as anything really new.

I see what you mean now. If you don't acknowledge you are at a different locale every time you load into a dungeon then yes, you are correct. Every dungeon is the same dungeon with a different variation. So from this POV I would be advocating for variations of the same skin/locale per dungeon instance. Thereby exponentially increasing variety per roulette.

And for sure, this is not the newest of concepts, but it would be more interesting than what we have currently. IMO.

[TaleraRistain]

I think so, but you need to read the whole post in order to understand how the issue you brought up would be handled.

Unfortunately people would just bail if it isn't the route they want. People still bail on Castrum even after the changes.

[Ath192]

Unfortunately people would just bail if it isn't the route they want. People still bail on Castrum even after the changes.

I disagree on this heavily. Castrums problem is that the rewards are incorrectly imbalanced vs Prae. So it has nothing to do with its variability. If all paths are tuned to within a few minutes of completion time with the same reward this would not happen. So I don't think the scenario is comparative at all.

Its actually interesting we clearly see people dip on Castrum to get the longer Prae for a better reward. So they choose the most tedious path because its worth it. Finally, even when I do get Castrum and see people dip out, I have never seen a Castrum run completely dissolve and it always refills and the duty gets complete.

[TaleraRistain]

I disagree on this heavily. Castrums problem is that the rewards are incorrectly imbalanced vs Prae. So it has nothing to do with its variability. If all paths are tuned to within a few minutes of completion time with the same reward this would not happen. So I don't think the scenario is comparative at all.

Its actually interesting we clearly see people dip on Castrum to get the longer Prae for a better reward. So they choose the most tedious path because its worth it. Finally, even when I do get Castrum and see people dip out, I have never seen a Castrum run completely dissolve and it always refills and the duty gets complete.

Prae isn't really that long anymore. They're much more comparable than they were and people still dip.

[Ath192]

Prae isn't really that long anymore. They're much more comparable than they were and people still dip.

The rewards aren’t the same, and all dungeons in the roulette are different as well. You don’t see people dip when they don’t get something they’d prefer in leveling roulette for example, they just go with it. Small exemption with aurum vale and totorak pre-nerf, but now that they are retuned people run them just fine as well.

So unfortunately I don’t get the argument you are trying to make by comparing them. We are talking similar length stuff with variations and identical exp/gil rewards vs static renditions of the same dungeon over and over.

Your point is cautionary tale about creating disparate rewards and lengths per instance on the same roulette, which imo is a mistake for sure.