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  1. #1
    Player
    Kaurhz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,589
    Character
    Asuka Kirai
    World
    Sagittarius
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    On the first point, I am definitely inclined to agree, it would be nice if there were some additional dynamics involved with the parts between the bosses, if some trash actually had mechanics, especially the filler trash, e.g., NOT the Apa which you need to burn down, or let live, depending.

    I don't mind the second point of this for Variant (Normal ver.) since they are to a degree meant to act as a sort of 'vehicle' for exploring the dungeon, rather than something to burn through.

    It would be nice if the first boss had more variance, or if each separate route had a separate first boss. There's not a great enough variance between mechanics and 'design' for it to really be impactful at all.

    A greater number of lost actions would be nice, but then in the same vein if it changes job dynamic, e.g., how you might play a particular job. But anything further is... It would feel like the encounters need to then be designed around having a certain set of actions - Either that or they just are inconsequential.

    Delubrum Normal was fun the first time that was all. Trinity Avowed was a nice boss with the Hot & Cold mechanic. But otherwise it got very boring and uninteresting after a few turns. I wouldn't really call Delubrum any more or less interesting than Variant, frankly - But different strokes for different folks.

    It would be nice if they could cycle their content a bit more, rather than having this expansion as, say, exclusively variant dungeons, cycle it so it has a variant/criterion, and then a large-scale raid like Delubrum and then back to Criterion/Variant, just to give themselves a chance to actually reflect on how to make the content better without it needing to span several expansions like always. - They do have a habit of finding something new and 'innovative' and then spamming it over and over.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Rufalus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,730
    Character
    Lufie Newleaf
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    It bugs me how the enemies are complete passive when you're standing right next to them. When the npc ally catches up and triggers the event, they suddenly go apeshit as if you've just arrived. Just a peculiarity of this game being scripted to a fault. If you frame the variant dungeons as an upgrade over normal dungeons then they are successful in that sense. They changed one linear path for a few, which is interesting for a few additional days.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,682
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    They need to be put in their own roulette, as it stands right now for me they are better than regular dungeons (a low low bar to clear) but you have no incentive to return once you have cleared them (even clearing all 12 paths is debatable if it’s even worth it) and the game doesn’t have any systems to make you want to return so they are just kinda there

    As it stands I love how solo’ing these is just another way to show us how bad current healers are but that’s an argument I’ve spent way too long arguing
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Koros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Posts
    304
    Character
    Koros Drakon
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    They need to be put in their own roulette, as it stands right now for me they are better than regular dungeons (a low low bar to clear) but you have no incentive to return once you have cleared them (even clearing all 12 paths is debatable if it’s even worth it) and the game doesn’t have any systems to make you want to return so they are just kinda there

    As it stands I love how solo’ing these is just another way to show us how bad current healers are but that’s an argument I’ve spent way too long arguing
    Clearing those 12 paths is literally the most boring thing I've done this week and I had to watch HBO while doing it because it's so god-awful boring. And yes, I actually did it blind. It's not hard, just read the NPC dialogue and the V&C lore entries. And no, doing it blind does not make it exciting because 5% of the time is spent on figuring the puzzle out, which yes is interesting and slightly fun, but the other 95% is repeating the same shit again. And actually it is even more unfun doing it blind because if you have a wrong theory congrats you are literally repeating everything again for like 20 mins so I actually totaled 14 runs.

    The lowest point is when I reached the place with the tree and the stone and I was falling asleep because I knew that I had to repeat the exact same sequence of events again, this time just pushing the tree instead of the stone and I'm like "ok".

    This "variant" feature of the variant dungeons is about the shallowest way to implement branching paths ever. It's just three different short dungeons mashed into one and doing one emote changes one boss's attack from water to fire.......... oooookay.

    They should literally just copy Metroid or Castlevania if they're this bad at designing non-linear dungeons but well, we know the real reason they can't make this good: too expensive and too much brainpower required. Or if they can't just bring back complex job design, like seriously the reason it's so unfun is because you're just pressing your AoE 1-2-3 combo like 90% of the time.
    (15)
    Last edited by Koros; 07-22-2023 at 10:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Player Reap00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    998
    Character
    Riamara Skye
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Koros View Post
    - Extremely boring trash

    - You have to wait for the NPCs forever to progress the dungeon.

    - Literally the same first boss every route doing the same few mechanics (with like one irrelevant variant each time).

    - The last bosses do nothing interesting really, other than maybe the secret final boss which copied Ktisis' first boss' mechanic but made it slightly interesting by cloning itself

    - Variant actions are so pointless and boring compared to Lost actions.

    Yeah no thanks, Delubrum Reginae normal was 20x more fun than Variant dungeons, and with Lost actions it was actually fun because they significantly alter how you play your job like with Irregular tank with Lost Blood Rage. It's honestly really sad how Variant dungeons are seen as good content in EW it shows how low standards are now.



    sry, i forgot ff14 is a side-game to do while everyone's just watching succession on hbo, my bad pls disregard this post
    You find them boring. I enjoy them a lot. Imagine that. People can have different opinions and they don't matter at all. I will continue to enjoy them. You will not. Life will go on.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    Kozh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    888
    Character
    Corvo Aerden
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    I sort of disagree. Is it perfect? Not really. But it's a step up compared to our usual dungeons.

    I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect Bozja lost actions to be implemented there since it has many variations and some are borderline broken.

    That said, I do agree that trash mobs are boring. And alternate paths have too little difference between each others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reap00 View Post
    You find them boring. I enjoy them a lot. Imagine that. People can have different opinions and they don't matter at all. I will continue to enjoy them. You will not. Life will go on.
    ..... Are you the type of person who find normal dungeon's trash mobs to be interesting?
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    Kaliesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,034
    Character
    Adrian Gungnir
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    I don't have much problem with the Variant Dungeons, but I dislike the Devs. making the first boss be the same one again on all paths.

    I was hoping they wouldn't do that again, but nah they gotta double down.


    What I don't get is they put all this complexity into the boss models, animations, music, VFX, SFX, whatever.

    But it comes to level design its just very shallow, and I say that in general for the whole game minus a few dungeons.

    I don't understand what is happening here.
    (1)
    Last edited by Kaliesto; 07-22-2023 at 03:25 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,682
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaliesto View Post
    I don't have much problem with the Variant Dungeons, but I dislike the Devs. making the first boss be the same one again on all paths.

    I was hoping they wouldn't do that again, but nah they gotta double down.


    What I don't get is they put all this complexity into the boss models, animations, music, VFX, SFX, whatever.

    But it comes to level design its just very shallow, and I say that in general for the whole game minus a few dungeons.

    I don't understand what is happening here.
    The fact that they use this beautiful animation of a blossoming cherry blossom tree on the first boss all so they can recycle a more basic form of E12N and make it a new boss definitely says alot about their design decisions for the variant dungeons
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Gullis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    512
    Character
    Gullis Hil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    First runs were fun, but my issues is that for something you need to do at minium 12 times for the true ending, there really isn't enough variety. Different paths all fine and dandy in theory, but in reality they all lead to the same boss (except 1) and most of the "different" routes, are just do the same thing you always did, but click the tree instead of the stone.

    At the very least, if each initial route had a different first boss it would help a lot with the tedium. Fighting the same ninja 12 times, but slightly different doesn't really scream variety
    (9)
    Last edited by Gullis; 07-22-2023 at 08:09 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Koros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Posts
    304
    Character
    Koros Drakon
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gullis View Post
    First runs were fun, but my issues is that for something you need to do at minium 12 times for the true ending, there really isn't enough variety. Different paths all fine and dandy in theory, but in reality they all lead to the same boss (except 1) and most of the "different" routes, are just do the same thing you always did, but click the tree instead of the stone.

    At the very least, if each initial route had a different first boss it would help a lot with the tedium. Fighting the same ninja 12 times, but slightly different doesn't really scream variety
    exactly, it's boring even within the first few runs lmao
    (0)

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