Should relic stats be tweeked?

[Penguin]

Well, that's the thing about monk, DPS is probably the most deceiving stat for the job in terms of raw damage. If you ever parse a monk's damage, you notice their auto-attacks make a significant difference in damage. This is why I personally detest the Garuda's Talons, even though they are better than Ifrit's.

With the Monk relic, the damage amount is greatly increased, specially compared to Garuda's Talons.

Garuda: 115 Damage
Ifrit: 131 Damage
Relic: 143 Damage

This not only affects your damage output by means of auto-attacks, but also make skills such as Hundred Fists and Spinning Heel much more efficient. You can consider this somewhat situational since Hundred Fists is generally only used in instanced fights such as garuda or the Castrum Novum fight and Spinning Heel is a great TP gain for zerg fights such as Miser.

Next is the Delay between each weapon. Without a doubt Garuda's Talons is extremely low delay while the relic is 0.1 above Ifrit's. This is one thing which Hundred Fists favors on relic more since delay is ignored when the skill is up. However, delay is more of a preference on how you want to gain TP. Lower Delay gives small amount of TP yet it's more frequent while higher delay gives larger amounts of TP yet less frequent. However I think SE chose 3.4 Delay on relic on purpose because with ifrit's 3.3 the amount of TP gained per hit is 330 (Without corselet or TP gain materia). With the relic 3 hits should boost you up to 1k~ tp instead of 990.

The stats of the relic itself turns a bit into preference when dealing with monk. Personally, I wouldn't take Crit Attack Power over Attack Power because even though I won't get the pretty crit on Howling Fist, I know all my skills will get a damage increase. Then there's the fact that the talons have acc while the relic doesn't, which if you ask me it isn't that big of a deal on monk(most of our gear already holds some type of acc). There is also the loss of extra wind damage which does actually add a nice bit of damage. However you get the 5 refresh which will do wonders in extended fights such as Hamlet. Then there are the less important stats of evasion and MP which are always a nice bonus, but lets not kid ourselves, the usefulness of the stats aren't that great.

There is one stat for every relic which is still a mystery to us all, and that's the bonus to the specified job action. I don't really know what bonus Shoulder Tackle gets from the relic so I can't judge it. I use the skill quite often in fights anyway so in the end it will at least increase my damage by something.

So are the weapons worth it for the quest? Well it depends on how you look at the weapons. I've already stated on how the monk relic upgrade looks like to me, and personally I do believe it is worthwhile, to answer the OP's questions.


Probably talking about the video the OP posted. Ifrit is down to about 30-35% HP by the time the nails are up.

Not sure how much you have played monk but if you are doing a close to perfect rotation auto attack should be making up only 10-15% maybe 20% max of the total damage done, that isn't what i would consider "significant", if your auto attacks are making up a significant amount of your damage than you aren't putting out as much damage as a monk can, so from a min/max point of view dps on weapon > damage currently for monk.

If you really want to boil it down to individual time investment, you're looking at a possible 1 (2 if your luck is terrible) total weeks to get someone a relic once everything is learned and beaten. Not really a huge time investment. It just seems that way because everything is new at the moment.

Once everything is learned the only real time factor is how long it takes you to get to a double meld.

And a Garuda weapon can be obtained in just over an hour if you pass headdresses.

Yes it wont take that long to do subsequent relics if you indeed don't need hamlet seals which seems like the case currently, but its still a pretty huge investment for what to me seems like very undervalued relics.

I am not saying double the stats and add 50 dps to each weapon, but the upgrade from garuda > relic should atleast be significantly higher than the upgrade from ifrit > garuda and currently its not for some if not all the weapons.

Don't get me wrong ill be getting a relic infact ill be getting multiple relics most likely, but for the time spent it just feels like the itemization is extremely lackluster.

[Dawiichan]

Not sure how much you have played monk but if you are doing a close to perfect rotation auto attack should be making up only 10-15% maybe 20% max of the total damage done, that isn't what i would consider "significant", if your auto attacks are making up a significant amount of your damage than you aren't putting out as much damage as a monk can, so from a min/max point of view dps on weapon > damage currently for monk.

If you don't consider 10%-20% of your damage significant, then the difference between 310 str to 350 str must also not be significant to you either... DPS on monk isn't as effective if the damage of the weapon is nerfing a fifth of your damage. I guess for you min/maxing is just maxing. If the GC claws didn't require as many sets at it did, it could easily become a better weapon than garuda.

[AmyNeudaiz]

If you don't consider 10%-20% of your damage significant, then the difference between 310 str to 350 str must also not be significant to you either... DPS on monk isn't as effective if the damage of the weapon is nerfing a fifth of your damage. I guess for you min/maxing is just maxing. If the GC claws didn't require as many sets at it did, it could easily become a better weapon than garuda.

If you use the right set up it can be if you're Twin Adder.

[Cthulhu]

If you use the right set up it can be if you're Twin Adder.

Just wondering which pieces you picked. My MNK is just about at cap and I was trying to pick out pieces to go with it. Was looking at Lt. Body, Sgt. legs, feet, waist, and the choker. Recommendation?

[Almalexia]

If you don't consider 10%-20% of your damage significant, then the difference between 310 str to 350 str must also not be significant to you either... DPS on monk isn't as effective if the damage of the weapon is nerfing a fifth of your damage. I guess for you min/maxing is just maxing. If the GC claws didn't require as many sets at it did, it could easily become a better weapon than garuda.

The combo system renders AA a means to an end; weapon DMG has been reduced to a) the dividend of the DPS calculation, and b) base damage for Shoulder Tackle. Then again, it has probably been this way since 1.19, only we as a community never considered DPS as a factor in the damage calculation until it appeared as a weapon stat.

Unlike FFXI, where MNK relied on AA more than burst damage from WS, all DD in FFXIV have a fairly consistent AA:WS damage ratio. Even if you manage to botch several combos, WS damage will still take the majority of your parse. So, that "10-20%" of your damage is not significant, because there's 80-90% of your damage that's doing, well, most of the damage. And if losing DMG to raise DPS "nerfs a fifth of your damage," you're recouping it in WS damage where most of your damage is coming from in the first place.

To keep this relic related, I agree MNK relic is not the top of the heap. It's probably the "worst" of the relics, without knowing the power behind enhanced Shoulder Tackle. Refresh+5, MP+70 and evasion are junk. The ATK is generous and DPS is the best MNK can get, but the true worth of Sphairai among its relic brethren will be decided by tackle damage. The only reason to get Sphairai otherwise is because you enjoy and frequently use MNK.

[Dawiichan]

The combo system renders AA a means to an end; weapon DMG has been reduced to a) the dividend of the DPS calculation, and b) base damage for Shoulder Tackle. Then again, it has probably been this way since 1.19, only we as a community never considered DPS as a factor in the damage calculation until it appeared as a weapon stat.

Unlike FFXI, where MNK relied on AA more than burst damage from WS, all DD in FFXIV have a fairly consistent AA:WS damage ratio. Even if you manage to botch several combos, WS damage will still take the majority of your parse. So, that "10-20%" of your damage is not significant, because there's 80-90% of your damage that's doing, well, most of the damage. And if losing DMG to raise DPS "nerfs a fifth of your damage," you're recouping it in WS damage where most of your damage is coming from in the first place.

To keep this relic related, I agree MNK relic is not the top of the heap. It's probably the "worst" of the relics, without knowing the power behind enhanced Shoulder Tackle. Refresh+5, MP+70 and evasion are junk. The ATK is generous and DPS is the best MNK can get, but the true worth of Sphairai among its relic brethren will be decided by tackle damage. The only reason to get Sphairai otherwise is because you enjoy and frequently use MNK.

Ok, you're completely missing the point... It's obvious that unlike XI, XIV's MNK deals most of it's damage from the WS they cast. However, I'm talking about the upgrade from Garuda Talons to Monk Relic. Garuda talons has the very low Damage yet a high DPS, while Monk's relic has a high DPS with a high damage. DPS on Garuda does make it a very nice weapon but the low damage on it nerfs you on 10%-20% of your damage. However with the monk relic the higher damage potentially increases a certain threshold of your damage by an immense amount because of Garuda's low DMG stat.

This is why I'm saying that compared to Ifrit, even though the overall damage from your skills is lowered, the damage on your AAs is increased. So unlike getting a low delay, low DMG weapon with the same DPS, we are actually getting a buff because the higher delay yet higher damage increases damage potential on some of their skills, which with the 340 TP per AA rotation, you can get 1000 tp in 3 hits instead of 4.

So in case you don't get it, I'm saying a high delay, high damage weapon(With the same DPS stat) is potentially better especially if the delay is high enough, which like the monk relic, you need at least 3.4 delay for it to be effective.

[Neptune]

I think the stats are too modest. For all that goes into obtaining them, I think they should have god-like ability.

[Allistar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

If I'm going to put myself through this hell, maybe.... just maybe I'm thinking the relics should be a little bit more awesome you feel me?

I think all our stats, including regular weapons and gear should be dialed down a bit...everything seems uneven, I hate that overpowered feeling...and the real difficulty we have in game is running around find positions or fighting tons of mabs at the same time...chaos I don't like...but thats just my opinion.

[Jinko]

I think all our stats, including regular weapons and gear should be dialed down a bit...everything seems uneven, I hate that overpowered feeling...and the real difficulty we have in game is running around find positions or fighting tons of mabs at the same time...chaos I don't like...but thats just my opinion.

If anything stats need to mean more.

That being said the latest additions have started to look a lot better of the stat front, the itemisation team have finally got a clue it seems.

[Noir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

If I'm going to put myself through this hell, maybe.... just maybe I'm thinking the relics should be a little bit more awesome you feel me?

Need a napkin?