Class/Job Relationship

[Ryans]

Going to start off by saying this isn't a thread to get rid of classes. I just can't imagine how new jobs would feel unique if they branch off of current classes. If you have a serious example of how, for example, a thm could branch off into anything else and still not use the same thunder>thundara combo for the majority of its time and damage, I am beyond happy to hear it.

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up in the past; the idea is to tone down how many skills that you naturally unlock from being a class and give most of them to the jobs.

I'm not sure exactly how the specifics would work, but, in theory, the current jobs would not be changed in any major way and classes would be more refined into something that is a building block instead of fully functioning, self-sustaining entity.

The concept is that jobs would unlock most of the abilities usable by said job instead of the small portion unlocked with the current system. Classes should still get the basics and, with more freedom to cross-class, be able to function in endgame content if people are inclined to do so. Maybe something along the lines of the major combos are unlocked by jobs.

Using Thm as an example again, it wouldn't unlock any spells beyond Thunder, Blizzard, Fire, and for arguments sake, Thundara (I personally don't think the class should get thundara in the proposed system, but I don't see how it would function competitively without it.) An example for Cnj would be it doesn't learn Sacred Prism or possibly Cura. Gladiator wouldn't learn any of the shield abilities, naturally. Perhaps Warrior learns all the defensive/tanking abilities that Mrd currently has and Mrd learns the offensive abilities. Monk would learn all the elemental fists and I'm not quite sure how Lnc would change. These are just some of the changes, not all the abilities that would be switched around.

The only way I see it working is if jobs were unlocked at an earlier level, something around 20, so that they have more time to work towards their abilities. Again, in a perfect world, jobs would stay the same in practice, and classes would be more refined from where they currently are.

[Ksenia]

Right now, we don't have enough content to justify Jobs. I can see them allowing a Weaver become a specialist in Linen so they can make a special line of Linen attire for level 50 characters though. Adding content in the process. Or add Dragon slayer that unlocks specialist leve or quest lines to kill boss versions of that kind of beast. Kill enough Dodo and you learn their kick that scales to your level? Either and or anything they offer in the term jobs sounds like a plate for additional content though. A new motive to do things.

[Alkar]

Right now we have 1 class going into 1 job. When they decide to include more job options for said class they could always include new abilities for classes and lock some when switching to jobs.
Let's take Gladiator as an example: right now the class is a pure tank with a lot of tanking abilities so it's natural that Paladin gets access to everything GLA has to offer. If they want to add DRK to GLA all they would need to do is add a new set of abilities to the base class (thus making classes even more varied than they are now) that aren't tank oriented and then ,when switching to DRK, you'd lose all those tanking abilities while keeping the damaging buffs and add more with job exclusive abilities. The opposite for Paladin.

[Guevara]

This could be a solution.

starting from GreyJorildyn idea, I quote myself:

They could very well increase the lvl cap for jobs only, though. Wouldn't be a bad idea, imho.... expecially from abilities point of view... if you increment lv cap for both jobs AND class, you will need to think of new abilities for both and this could lead to difficult balancing, since the class abilities will have to be shared with the multiple jobs (coming from that class), but also with the jobs "importing" abilities from that certain class (e.g. like MNK gets abilities from LNC).

at LV50 jobs are very similar to classes, but then, you can bring them to (let's say) LV75 and you have 25 levels worth of unique abilities tied to that, and ONLY that, job.

[Ryans]

This could be a solution.

starting from GreyJorildyn idea, I quote myself:


at LV50 jobs are very similar to classes, but then, you can bring them to (let's say) LV75 and you have 25 levels worth of unique abilities tied to that, and ONLY that, job.

Thats not a bad idea, have classes stop learning abilities after 50, or at least at a lot slower frequency, and make jobs get the rest of the new skills from that point on. I could see that working with a level cap increase if each job learned enough new abilities to really differentiate itself from its base class.

@bobbygunz
I know they'll figure out something, but speculation is fun. I get absolutely no enjoyment out of the simple "wait and see" methodology. I like the "wait and see, while I ponder about what I'm waiting for" one.

[Arkine]

Right now we have 1 class going into 1 job. When they decide to include more job options for said class they could always include new abilities for classes and lock some when switching to jobs.
Let's take Gladiator as an example: right now the class is a pure tank with a lot of tanking abilities so it's natural that Paladin gets access to everything GLA has to offer. If they want to add DRK to GLA all they would need to do is add a new set of abilities to the base class (thus making classes even more varied than they are now) that aren't tank oriented and then ,when switching to DRK, you'd lose all those tanking abilities while keeping the damaging buffs and add more with job exclusive abilities. The opposite for Paladin.

If you're going to create 2 or more unique sets of skills for GLA just to accommodate jobs, then GLA itself is unnecessary. (which its already is!) and jobs should exist on their own.

Also if GLA has access sets of abilities (currently 20 so multiply that) for 3 jobs (thats 60 abilities) that would be super convoluted.

Thats not a bad idea, have classes stop learning abilities after 50, or at least at a lot slower frequency, and make jobs get the rest of the new skills from that point on. I could see that working with a level cap increase if each job learned enough new abilities to really differentiate itself from its base class.

Then why have classes at all if PLD75 would have so many more (I'm thinking 10 more atleast if we get 1 every 5 levels) skills than GLA75 (which will still have the same number it had at 50 and the same cross class abilities since all other classes stopped gaining skills at 50)

Down goes classes!

[Ryans]

Then why have classes at all if PLD75 would have so many more (I'm thinking 10 more atleast if we get 1 every 5 levels) skills than GLA75 (which will still have the same number it had at 50 and the same cross class abilities since all other classes stopped gaining skills at 50)

Down goes classes!

SE isn't going to get rid of classes, I think that much is clear. That reason alone is why I'm not saying get rid of them.

You'll notice I said "at a lot slower frequency" in reference to classes learn skills. If classes are learning abilities at the same rate as jobs, they will have even less differentiation from their jobs then the situation we are in now.

Btw, your math is off on the ratio of class:job in terms of abilities. Unless you are talking about the ratio in the system in my original post, classes and jobs would have 5 moref skills at 75 if classes stopped getting abilities at 50. The difference would be jobs get 10 unique abilities and classes get 10 shared abilities. And again, I said classes should get abilities but at a slower rate than jobs, meaning that they would still get new abilities on the way to 75.

[Alkar]

If you're going to create 2 or more unique sets of skills for GLA just to accommodate jobs, then GLA itself is unnecessary. (which its already is!) and jobs should exist on their own.

Also if GLA has access sets of abilities (currently 20 so multiply that) for 3 jobs (thats 60 abilities) that would be super convoluted.

2 jobs are more than enough for each class and I don't see why it would make GLA useless. GLA would have a lot more abilities at its disposal (and with the ability limit you'd have to pick which ones you want and can't even use all of them) making it a lot more versatile than jobs. In endgame situations you'll want to use jobs to improve your role in the party even more but when you're soloing or simply doing casual activities you'll want GLA.

[Ryans]

2 jobs are more than enough for each class and I don't see why it would make GLA useless. GLA would have a lot more abilities at its disposal (and with the ability limit you'd have to pick which ones you want and can't even use all of them) making it a lot more versatile than jobs. In endgame situations you'll want to use jobs to improve your role in the party even more but when you're soloing or simply doing casual activities you'll want GLA.

This isn't a topic about the usefulness of classes compared to jobs. Its a topic about job differentiation from their base class and how future jobs will be added on to the existing classes. As it is now, a job is the same thing as the class but with a small amount of extra abilities. While those abilities can be extremely helpful, it doesn't make them play much different from the class. It makes me wonder how a new job would feel any different from either the base class or the previous jobs attached to the class.

I suppose my problem with the system is that jobs don't change the way you play a class, they simply augment it in the smallest way possible. The simplest way I can say it is; I would like the majority of the skills a job uses be from just that, the job you are using.