EW Relic Grind is just a streamlined version of ARR/HW Grind

[Supersnow845]

Well, first, that's not what he said. Second, this entire discussion is about the plethora of ways besides roulettes that you can use to achieve these relics your way. What we have here is the definition of a bad-faith poster.

He refuted every method I offered by basically saying either “another relic already used it” or “it doesn’t fit with a combat relic” (you know despite older relics using non combat methods) so yes that is pretty much exactly what he said

And yes all the methods besides roulettes we have….checks notes…..variant and EO (let’s ignore they are also the 2 least efficient methods of getting causality tomestones), unfortunately picking to do the aetherfont for x random reason rather than just the expert roulette doesn’t count as 2 seperate pieces of content

So I’m still yet to see this mythical variation people love to preach about

[Amh_Wilzuun]

In theory relic quests add content to the game to keep players busy deep into an expansion. You have to actively go out of your way to grind instances/fates/etc. Yeah it’s tedious but you get a cool weapon for it and feel accomplished.

Endwalker relic quests add nothing. No content. All you have to do is log in and spend your tomes. All you need is to do expert semi-regularly which active players already do. At most maybe you do an expert 90 dungeon run or hunt train. I have kept up with four relics just by doing this and running some trains once in a while. Unless you want all the relics or something but almost no one does that.

It’s boring for current players and future players are gonna have to spam MSQ roulette for a mind numbing poetics grind

[Alleluia]

Older relic grinds involve steps such as doing dungeons, trials and other duties to farm hundreds of thousands of points of "light" or to awaken mahatmas or whatever. These resources are really just thinly veiled: "do this old content repeatedly for a specific resource". What they did in EW is remove the specific restriction of forcing you to repeat the same duties instead to Tomes, which allow for you to do ANY relevant content.

So previously you had to do 60+ Garuda HM to maximize light. Instead of spamming the same duty, you have the freedom to do any duty and the relic just requires the common currency they all award. It's literally the same difference, they are just not pigeon holing you into only doing dungeons and trials and 24mans, which btw were content that already gave tomes. Instead of making a separate light, it's just tomes. You're still doing duties for them, you just get to pick your poison.

I just completed the next step in my Manderville Weapon yesterday and was thinking this exact thing. The only difference really is it isn't requiring FATEs, too. Only if they added a bicolor gem requirement. Or made it so gems could purchase the items, too. Then it'd be pretty much identical. But yeah. Agree.

[Supersnow845]

People once again do the atma/anima relics in EW then act like they are same as the EW relics

[Alleluia]

Fine, its ARR relics if you only had to grind a 4th or so of the light. But still, its the same principles at play. Grind content from content list, get currency, turn in currency to get item, turn in item to get weapon.

[Supersnow845]

Fine, its ARR relics if you only had to grind a 4th or so of the light. But still, its the same principles at play. Grind content from content list, get currency, turn in currency to get item, turn in item to get weapon.

No I mean the relics are not remotely like they are now

Anima used to have a step that had 7 different options to obtain the requisite the options whos options included

-regular dungeons
-dematerialising
-crafting
-gathering
-extreme trials
-fates
-beast tribe quests

Saying it’s the same thing because it’s “gathering currency from a list then turn it in for a weapon” is just completely disingenuous as a comparison

[Alleluia]

No I mean the relics are not remotely like they are now

Anima used to have a step that had 7 different options to obtain the requisite the options whos options included

-regular dungeons
-dematerialising
-crafting
-gathering
-extreme trials
-fates
-beast tribe quests

Saying it’s the same thing because it’s “gathering currency from a list then turn it in for a weapon” is just completely disingenuous as a comparison

Yeah, the content options are definitely streamed down, given that list. Though I imagine there was a "optimal" way to do it among those methods that people who cared about being optimal (which presumably is a large chunk of the people who would take on a current content weapon grind like Anima) would almost always choose to use? Maybe the devs' numbers showed that. If the split was such that there might as well not have been multiple options cus only one path was chosen most of the time, I can understand why they've narrowed down the options to "duties that give x currency".

[Eorzean_username]

Going into total Inner Release unhinged mode, so just going to HB this so people can skip past it if they're not in the mood, but seriously, this entire conversation is making me feel like I'm in some kind of Twilight Zone or Black Mirror episode

If the split was such that there might as well not have been multiple options cus only one path was chosen most of the time, I can understand why they've narrowed down the options to "duties that give x currency".

This kind of reductive reasoning is a mind-numbing way to design games and, unironically, will slowly lead to games with no gameplay whatsoever, where you just log in to press a button and be told you got a reward.

The entire. Point. Of. A. "Game". Is. That. There. Are. Rules. To. Follow. If. You. Want. To. Win.

This whole, "BUT YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN RLeIC GRIDN ♥ " non-argument is just so excruciating to keep reading reformulated over and over again.

The point of prior Relic designs was that there were arbitrary constraints and rules which you, as a player, needed to navigate and solve — usually completely-different ones at each step of the process.

Entire tactics and strategies for not just a single stage, but the way that you personally would navigate all of the stages, would be developed.

There was actual discussion involved in figuring out not just how the steps worked, but the best way to complete them.

The same reason that every single boss encounter is not identical in design, even if you inevitably end up formulating a strategy for all of them.

———————————

"But owieeeee, real Relic grinds are hard, and not instant, and I don't like it"

Yes. That was the point. Relics were originally something done because you wanted to navigate the logistical challenge of completing it in exchange for the stats and glamour. It was a game in and of itself. It was something that you built and worked towards. It was a game activity.

"Now everyone gets a relic ~ Haha hilbirand so funy he upside down again and gObert is naked XD" — This is not a Relic. This is just a quest reward. EW does not have a "Relic", in the sense as previously defined by the game.

———————————

"Wow, I noticed that in basketball, the ball always ends up going through that metal circle thing. Why don't we just remove most of the court, most of the players, and just put two metal circle things next to each other? Because all anyone ever does is approach the metal circle things, anyway!"

"...Wait, also, I noticed that sometimes the ball misses the metal circle thing, and people get frustrated. And then teams just come up with OpTiMaL PaThS for getting the ball into the metal circle!"

"Sooooo... why don't we just lower the height of the metal circle to, say, 1 meter! And also make it... hm... 5 — no! TEN — times larger in diameter—!"

"...Because, like... people are just going to put the ball in the metal circle either way, right...?"

" ~ Haha wow ♥ I love this version of basketball so much more ♥ I can put the ball in the metal circle in like 10 seconds ♥ and then still have time to catch my favorite [redacted] on [redacted] ♥"

———————————

Nooooo, but see, I like this kind of Relic so much more, because I don't have to do all those things that old Relics made me do, which I hated doing!

PERHAPS RELICS WEREN'T THE CORRECT CONTENT FOR YOUR TASTES, AND YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST ADMITTED THAT TO YOURSELF AND NOT PURSUED THEM.

Ahhhh I enjoy DSR so much more now that they reduced it to the same difficulty as Expert Dungeons! Thanks SE! Now I finally like Ultimates!

———————————

You basically just want a log-in reward?

Great. Then you can have one.

But why does it have to come at the cost of an entirely different kind of content that other people actually enjoyed working through ?

SE's reaction to everything is, "We noticed some people didn't like X. Therefore, we eradicated X with a nuclear warhead, and built this shallow drinking-bird atop its smoldering corpse."

[Hazama999]

I actually liked the first part of ARR honestly. A quest where you are actually looking for an ancient relic as the base of your Relic, maybe get a crafter's help for refining, and I'm pretty sure then the Chimera raid fight.

I do miss this from back in ARR. If I recall correctly, the relics were a bit more individualized in terms of story whereas nowadays they all fall within a general "we are going to craft [WEAPON], warrior of light!" format. I realize that making job-specific narratives for the relics is more cumbersome given the number of jobs we have nowadays but I miss that nonetheless.

[Asako]

My issue with the relic is that it has no longer become something I want to do because now I will just get it passively by playing the game so it is now content that doesn't matter.


I used to love doing books, atmas and light farming. Especially the Atmas. People always talk a load of wet over Atmas but you know what happened with that phase? You could go to practically any ARR zone and see it booming with life. The MMO game felt like an MMO game because people weren't stuck in cities, they were out adventuring. Be honest, when's the last time you went to a zone from any of the expansions and seen loads of lads just pumping away at fates or flying and running about. You're practically playing Hans Solo when you are out and about.

Same goes for the roulettes, 24mans, Trials, Dungeons, they used to be jammed packed with players all working away to the same end. Sure most people would go for the fastest route [Garuda/Sycus ect] but make no mistake, all of those trials, dungeons and 24 man raids were absolutely popping off. Queues were fast, you met loads of new players each time and everyone was excited to get their new shiny weapon.

Now it's just, ah I got 1500 tomes, I better spend them before I cap, ack sure I'll just buy 3 meteorites. Obviously that for a lot of people is nice, they don't feel obligated to grind anything and they'll just get it. I'm just saying....why not give us both options.....you could grind the 24man and lesser known raids to help them pop more often for people and speed up your relic or you could just take your time.

I feel like the world personally suffers from not actively having people out in the zones making it look lively.