EW Relic Grind is just a streamlined version of ARR/HW Grind

[LilimoLimomo]

With respect, OP is incorrect in 2 ways:

First, OP is ignoring all the parts of old relics that weren't doing repeated instanced content. Previous Relics always included FATES; there are no FATES here. Both ARR and Heavensward Relics contain steps where crafting and gathering were among the methods available to progress your Relic. Not here. And there were plenty of steps that required players to do a series of specific dungeons or trials, which explicitly forced variety. These are all meaningful differences.

Second, nobody was ever limited to do the same Trial over and over again; they chose to do that because it was determined to be the optimal solution to acquiring the resource. In that way, it will be no different here: an optimal solution will be found, and that's what most people will do. You've always had the choice to stray from the optimal path if you prefer otherwise.

I will say that in terms of gathering a single resource, tomestones do offer a wide variety of different ways to earn them, and in that way it does allow the possibility for different ways to farm.

But in the end I think that benefit is negated by having 3+ consecutive steps that require gathering the same resource. For most players this isn't going to encourage a variety of play, but rather means that for 3+ consecutive steps of their relic they will be doing the exact same farm. In step 1 they will choose the farm that is most optimal for them, and that's the farm they'll still be doing when they finish step 3.

If you want players to vary their play, you have to incentivize them — or force them — to do it. This was baked into the design of previous Relic quests, but it is unfortunately absent here.

[Jojoya]

If you want players to vary their play, you have to incentivize them — or force them — to do it. This was baked into the design of previous Relic quests, but it is unfortunately absent here.

I haven't seen SE mention anything stating their intent was to have players vary their play. They said they want players to choose how they earn the tomestones from our normal options.

If a player chooses only what they consider to be the most efficient route, then that's what they do. If someone wants it to be grindy, they can always run the same trial 100+ times. It's a decision the player gets to make for themselves instead of SE making it for them.

Trying to force players into specific content may result in the player not participating at all, which can lead to other problems.

There is no automatic win strategy to adopt because different players want different things. If SE's own goal is to increase player participation, this is the best way to go because the player has some control over what they do.

As many complaints as we've heard about the tomestone design, I don't think I've heard anyone say "I'm not going to participate in this because it's just a tomestone grind". That's not to say that there aren't a few, I'd be surprised if there weren't, but it doesn't seem to really be discouraging anyone from participating.

On the other hand, players who have skipped the relics in the past because they didn't like the content they were asked to do or thought it was too grindy are participating this time because they're getting to choose content that is fun to them. Because it's become fun instead of tedious, they're taking an interest in it.

Was this experiment a success in their eyes? We'll have to see how the relic series is designed next expansion assuming they don't give us a specific answer in some interview before then.

[xbahax92]

You're basically summing up the issue. Some relic quests seem to be same-ish.
But you know what's sad? Feedback/Criticism about relics exist since years.
And even though FFXIV is running since 10 years and overall 4 Expansions, they still fail to deliver.
This expansion, it feels like... they're not even trying anymore.

[Supersnow845]

Once again people look at what the ARR and HW relics look like today and go “see the EW relics are the same” and obviously have absolutely no idea what those relics were actually like on patch

[TheNight]

I crafted full sets of gear for every single job (Tanks, Healers, Melee, Casters, P.Ranged, Crafters and Gatherers) and still, STILL have tombstones left over to buy the weapon upgrade for the Manderville Weapon on my main job.

In the same time it takes to complete 1-2 weapons of past expansions, you'll have probably completed 10+ of the Manderville Tombstone weapons.

It's not compatable, at all.

The only way it is comparable if one resorts to bad-faith logic. If you squint really hard, 4500 tomes is the same as 30k+ poetics, lots of FATEs, hunts, crafting, gathering, even combat levequests, new trials...

[DixieBellOCE]

I mean, i can't get tomestones doing older content so i cam kind of 'forced' to fill that void in current expansion 'dead' content by their design.

So no, i don't have the freedom to 'obtain a relic by doing anything'

[AmiableApkallu]

I mean, i can't get tomestones doing older content so i cam kind of 'forced' to fill that void in current expansion 'dead' content by their design.

You can do, or have a chance to do, older content for those tomesones via

• Level 50/60/70/80 Dungeons roulette
• Leveling roulette
• Trials roulette
• Main Scenario roulette
• Alliance Raids roulette
• Normal Raids roulette
• Mentor roulette
• Frontline roulette

My own hot take might be that SE decided that they didn't need to encourage running a specific expansion's content, so they just fell back on the familiar, all-encompassing roulettes.

[Supersnow845]

You can do, or have a chance to do, older content for those tomesones via

• Level 50/60/70/80 Dungeons roulette
• Leveling roulette
• Trials roulette
• Main Scenario roulette
• Alliance Raids roulette
• Normal Raids roulette
• Mentor roulette
• Frontline roulette

My own hot take might be that SE decided that they didn't need to encourage running a specific expansion's content, so they just fell back on the familiar, all-encompassing roulettes.

Wow I can do the same roulettes I’ve been doing since the roulettes were introduced

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

Saying “here your choice is one of the roulettes” isn’t a choice at all

[dspguy]

Wow I can do the same roulettes I’ve been doing since the roulettes were introduced

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

Saying “here your choice is one of the roulettes” isn’t a choice at all

You can get your tomes by running Hunts. It doesn't have to be a roulette.

And I really don't get that logic anyway. Instead of saying "to earn your relic you have to run Dungeon A, then Dungeon B, then Dungeon C" - now you can run any of Dungeon ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP. How exactly is that a bad thign? And on top of that, there are so many ways to earn tomes, you don't have to do roulettes at all. Let's say you never got your Starbird from The Dead Ends. You can still run that dungeon, earn tomes for the relic AND do something else.

It used to be "if you were working on your relic, that's ALL you are working on while doing it." Remember one of the later ARR steps? It had to do with running level 50 dungeons in the hopes that the final boss would drop some token that you needed. It was a random drop (not 100% like it is now). And you had to be either on the relic-earning job to get credit OR another level-capped job.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Wow I can do the same roulettes I’ve been doing since the roulettes were introduced

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

Saying “here your choice is one of the roulettes” isn’t a choice at all

Except variant dungeons literally give Causality, meaning they directly contribute to relic progress.. It's actually what makes me laugh the most at the people saying they wanted to spam Variants for their relic - you can literally do that in the current setup. Go spend all your tomes so you start at 0, then build up 1500 off of V&C alone. bam, you get your relic grind off the content you were hoping to grind. Same with Orthos, you could spam that all day until you build up 1500. You can still make a relic grind if you so choose to do so in the current way its setup - you just have to have absolute basic self control to do it now that Square's authoritative 'you must do it this way' voice is gone.