Time to Quit

[Jojoya]

Exactly. I just don't really see as much of a reason to post about something I that I like.

If they aren't getting feedback about content that resonates strongly with players and that players like overall, how are they to know that is content they should keep in the game?

Participation metrics can help but they won't tell the developers if the players are doing the content because they actually enjoy it or if they're only doing it because a highly desirable reward is gated behind that content.

I'm not trying to suggest going out of the way to make positive only feedback posts in addition to the negative ones but when discussing things that you aren't enjoying, it may be helpful to mention the things you are enjoying as a comparison point.

[Renathras]

Also there is a clear difference between somebody enjoying the game but still heavily criticize it and negative andies who express their distaste over the game and do nothing but doomsaying and finding an ultimatum but never following through it.

Right, but posting MULTIPLE "Time to Quit" threads is more negative andy than constructive criticism - something I explicitly pointed out on my post.

Why? Why someone has to hate the game if they have a bad opinion about it.

When making multiple posts about quitting, trying to encourage other people to quit, trying to get people to play other games, etc, it's pretty clear one does NOT, in fact, like the game.

Though I'm a bit confused about this:

I’m tired of seeing the game dumbed down.

There are only three specific things that can be outright described as "dumbed down" from ShB to EW - SMN, PLD, and the Relic grind (which is less "dumbed down" and more "made easier", but I'm sure that'd be included)

ShB was the start of the EW trend. If you started in 5.2, that is. EW largely just took ShB and ran with it, in a few cases doubling down but in most cases just continuing the same thing.
I’m tired of having new contents not worth to play more than once with barely a gameplay into it and rewards.

I think we CAN change the game.

That's fair, but if you want that, posting "Time to Quit" threads isn't going to do it. Playing up other games (including some laughably bad ones) as better, trying to encourage other people who aren't miserable to BE miserable and quit FFXIV, etc: Those things will not see FFXIV improve.

What will are specific, actionable, constructive criticism without namecalling or belittling terms.

"The Devs are stupid" - no change.
"Players are lazy" - no change.
"The game is dumbed down" - no change.
"I feel that the lack of Exploration Zone content this expansion that many enjoyed has led to the content droughts and longer patches to more negatively impact players who used to use that content for socializing, meeting others in the game community, and for something they could continuously work on and progress during content lulls. While Criterion and Deep Dungeons are noble attempts, they seem not to meet those needs of the community. Would you please seriously consider including Exploration Zone content like Eureka and Bozja in the next expansion, ideally starting in the 7.1 patch cycle?" - might lead to change

Note that this last one is different. It doesn't insult or belittle either the Devs or other players, it doesn't come across as annoyed, hateful, or antagonistic, it lays out the case for why the person thinks a thing, and their proposed solution for it.

If you want change, that is what you need.

"But we've done that so much we're tired of it!" - If you've done it so much, you must have a backlog of posts you can copy and paste if you feel like engaging with the topic, so it's no more effort for you. That's even LESS work than making dozens of angry posts that say nothing useful would be.

No amount of blind anger or doomposting will lead to change. Serious, sober discussion will, if anything.

And that's not "bait". "bait" is when someone posts doomsaying and the like INSTEAD OF a reasoned discussion. Indeed, "bait" is more likely to harm your effort than help it.

SE is loosing buyers all over their games, I wonder why (ironic)

Except they aren't when it comes to FFXIV. It's more popular than ever by every metric we have to measure players, and probably will get another boost in 7.0.

...and that's the problem that keeps happening over and over on this forum, you literally cant complain about anything without being told to quit, it's literally the most toxic thing there is, and then yall wonder why you get trolls all over the place ? You reap what you sow lol

That's a total lie!

I complain about things here all the time. I don't think I've ever been told to quit over it by anyone here.

The difference is my complaints are actionable. I explain my reasoning and what I think solutions would be. People here hate my long posts and many don't like arguing with me (especially the ones I'm generally on the opposite side of arguments with), but no one has ever told me to quit over my complaints. People often at least passingly agree with my criticisms, at least in part if not in whole.

While it's true there are some people who would probably like me to quit over some of my views or how I express them, no one's ever told me to quit based on my complaints. Hell, I complain about Exploration Zones and encounter design ALL THE TIME. I just don't start troll/bait posts about it in General every few days, and my complaints are explained, reasoned out, solutions presented, and aren't filled with vitriol and belittling and namecalling (usually; sometimes that last one sneaks in. )

[Burmecia]

for me it is not time to quit. i am actually more happy and interested about mt rokkon than i thought i would be.

and easy sailing relic is still very much to my liking! if it wasn't so I wouldn't bother.

[Limecat]

My boiling point was already 3.1. I didn't come back again until 4.0 and only have done so with the acceptance of the notion that the game will never be more than it is. I only played a couple months worth of SB at either end, came into ShB around 5.1 but sporadically popped in and out until 5.5. EW is the first time since ARR I've been in it for the long haul, but the instant my random amusements cease to be a draw I'll be on the way out the door again.

[Iscah]

We're at a stage where it's impossible to tell if this is a joke or fully serious.

That particular poster does nothing (to my experience) but exaggerated mockeries of "I'm happy with the game as it is" posts. They're clearly not serious.

Really? You don't understand why hard content needs good rewards?

Okay, what happens when people who seek a challenge get their one clear of it and see there's nothing to reward them for their trouble? They stop doing it. The content becomes dead content.

Overcoming the challenge is the reward. If that's not a thing that gives you joy, you don't do it. Simple as that.

If there's a material reward, people will play it to get the reward, then stop, and the content will be just as dead.

Regardless of the reward, tangible or intangible, you're still going to have some fraction of players who want to to it for the first time, and some who have the reward but are happy to step in and replay it for the sake of it.

I'm not trying to suggest going out of the way to make positive only feedback posts in addition to the negative ones but when discussing things that you aren't enjoying, it may be helpful to mention the things you are enjoying as a comparison point.

That's why posts in the vein of "my opinion on XXX", positive or negative, are not really a good thing for a forum format.

The ideal setup – and I wish the mods/community team would encourage it by starting topics to form the framework – is to make a neutral thread about the game features as they are released, and then everyone can come to that thread and say what they thought of it, good or bad.

[TheRealMadruck]

That's a total lie!

I complain about things here all the time. I don't think I've ever been told to quit over it by anyone here.

The difference is my complaints are actionable. I explain my reasoning and what I think solutions would be. People here hate my long posts and many don't like arguing with me (especially the ones I'm generally on the opposite side of arguments with), but no one has ever told me to quit over my complaints. People often at least passingly agree with my criticisms, at least in part if not in whole.

While it's true there are some people who would probably like me to quit over some of my views or how I express them, no one's ever told me to quit based on my complaints. Hell, I complain about Exploration Zones and encounter design ALL THE TIME. I just don't start troll/bait posts about it in General every few days, and my complaints are explained, reasoned out, solutions presented, and aren't filled with vitriol and belittling and namecalling (usually; sometimes that last one sneaks in. )

Interesting. Just because you anedoctally have never been told "if you don't like it, just leave" or to quit does not mean others have not had that experience over the years. When I advocated for SE to do something about addons, people told me to quit. When I posted about a FF14 content creator using a bot, I was told to quit. When I remarked how Endwalkers early access was worst than another MMO I recently played, again...others told me to quit. This has been a constant cycle for myself for over 10 years since Beta from any FF14 hardcore stan that can't see this game take criticism. All my critiques were fair and valid or as you call "actionable". So next time, try not pretending you have powers of clairvoyance to know if and when someone is lying!

[AwesomeJr44]

Overcoming the challenge is the reward. If that's not a thing that gives you joy, you don't do it. Simple as that. If there's a material reward, people will play it to get the reward, then stop, and the content will be just as dead.

Regardless of the reward, tangible or intangible, you're still going to have some fraction of players who want to to it for the first time, and some who have the reward but are happy to step in and replay it for the sake of it.

Overcoming a difficult challenge should be part of the reward. Without a tangible reward, content has no lifespan beyond the time it takes to clear it once. If there's some kind of decent incentive, the content will not only be ran by the general population for longer, but it will always be alive in some capacity. People still farm old Extremes to this day because there is a reward worth going for. I don't think that people are going to be doing so with things like Criterion. There just isn't a reason to justify doing so, especially if Criterion can't be unsynced.

To use another example, I'd also assume that people wouldn't bother reclearing Savage if a tangible reward wasn't tied to it. It'd get cleared once and abandoned. Because Savage has rewards, people are willing to clear it for months after their first kill. Criterion needs that carrot on a stick to get people to keep coming back.

[Theodric]

Overcoming the challenge is the reward. If that's not a thing that gives you joy, you don't do it. Simple as that.

If there's a material reward, people will play it to get the reward, then stop, and the content will be just as dead.

Regardless of the reward, tangible or intangible, you're still going to have some fraction of players who want to to it for the first time, and some who have the reward but are happy to step in and replay it for the sake of it.

A lot of people welcome a challenge so long as it offers a suitable carrot on the stick as a reward. There's a healthy balance to be struck. I like goals to work towards but I also like my time invested to amount to more than just bragging rights. Especially since I prefer to go through some content with my partner and Endwalker has provided a lot less group content in general to our tastes when compared to previous expansions.

[elioaiko]

Like others have said, 7.0 will determine whether or not I finally stop playing or stay.

The content has not be appealing at all. The small pool of dungeons reduced to 1 per patch, the relic grind being phoned in, and jobs getting absolutely nothing other than sfx upgrades.

Ppl can judge Eureka and Bojzan all they want but there was way more effort put in the grind than what we have now. Grinding the lack of variety dungeons we have now is equally as boring.

The content cycle has become stale and it just feels more of the same (and not in a good way).

I dare say that ShB was a solid expansion despite its shortcomings.

For new players, they'll have plenty to do and enjoy, but for me personally (been here since SB), they've become complacent with the content cycle.

[Renathras]

Interesting. Just because you anedoctally have never been told...

I'm not the only one.

The person - the SPECIFIC person - I was responding to has a history of being a doomsayer here. If you're constantly doomsaying, after a while, people are going to question your motives and/or enjoyment of the game. That's when the "just quit" comes it. Doubly so when people are posting threads SAYING THAT THEY ARE QUITTING, or alternatively, saying it's time to quit and encouraging others to quit as well.

Moreover, the poster was making absolute statements of it happening "over and over again" and "you literally cant complain about anything without being told to quit".

You literally CAN complain about things without being told to quit. That makes the poster wrong.

You can argue that people like you (I don't know your post history, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) make reasoned arguments are are told to quit;, but saying you "literally cant complain about anything" else you'll be told to quit is an absolute lie when people are literally complaining about something(s) (something being part of anything) and NOT being told to quit.

.

EDIT: I also should note your last sentence - particularly how you worded it - does not speak to reason or benefit of the doubt. So maybe I give you too much credit and you are one of those people that WEREN'T reasoned in your argument. I don't think I've ever replied to you before nor you to me, and I don't recognize your name, yet you spout off with "don't pretend to be clairvoyant" at me in what, as far as I can tell, is our very first interaction.

Unless you're an alt of the other poster?

That makes me think you're prone to emotional outbursts and less-than-reasonable posts, which could be what led to your being told to quit. Just throwing that out there, Mr. Clairvoyant. Maybe don't insult people (that being one of the things I said not to do if you want to be listened to) and don't come out so hot and heavy for no reason (my post did NOT deserve that kind of attack). I DO have a history with Storm. You and I do not.

Looking at samples of your post, I don't THINK that's true...but then I see that post with that last sentence...