Manderville Relic Criticism

[Supersnow845]

So?

Do people just want welfare handouts now?



Only one step in HW had light, and actually it was very feasible to get light by doing content every day without grinding A1S or A9S.

You responded to a guy who said the change was good because it allowed him to get many relics easily and said “that’s basically what anima did”

Anima did not allow you to get the relics easily at all, that’s what I was referring to

[Post]

Well, you can have Bozja and you can have relics. If you tie relics to Bozja, then you have to do Bozja for a relic. You might just want to do Bozja and hate relics or you might just want a relic and hate Bozja.

That's what they did in Eureka by limiting your options.

They could have still implemented an exploratory zone in EW and made it separate from relic; we did get the new island sanctuary, variant dungeons and PvP mode, 2 of which can help you progress towards relics on top of all other existing content a player might be chewing through.

I'm glad they don't have relics tied to them because they can stand on their own merits or adjusted until they do instead of being propped up by completionists.

This also helps relic hunters that don't care about an arbitrary quest chain to create the ultimate weapon that somehow gets outclassed 8 levels into the new expansion but get the relic as a means to do other things, like play different jobs in any content. Or just take extra glowy selfies, whatever.

[Deo14]

I think one thing most players overlook with the new system:

Old relic grinds are considered 'content' in later expansions, what will the Manderville relics be, when everyone has them finished before 7.0 because they are an absolute joke?

What is Endwalker leaving behind in terms of 'replayable content' that people will do in later years?

EW relics will become yet another HW weapons, but even more void of any gameplay or nuance - when you notice that you capped poetics, you will tp to Radz-at-Han, buy 4 stones, and continue with your day. I still don't understand why do people think this is a good thing. At least anima makes you do some dungeons, trials and then group up with others to farm anima.

And what will EW left behind? Questions in NN - "What is this "V&C" thing?", "I'm on some island and it made me click some nodes, what's the deal with this?". How will you answer these question?

[caffe_macchiato]

As someone who's been running roulettes and dailies since 2016, being made to do the same thing for the latest relic--same old dungeons and all--is nauseating. I get that CBU3 is proud of their work in ARR, but to shove it down our throats constantly is a bit weird. The world has changed a lot in the past ten years, and many games and MMOs have come out since then. They should stop recycling old content to fill the gap. Then again, this is Square Enix and they've fallen on hard times lately with the disappointing sales of FF16.

But everyone's happy with it, so who am I to judge? Just pay $13 and play other games.

Best MMO, better than WoW, free trial, Venat mommy, etc.

[Xeronia]

EW relics will become yet another HW weapons, but even more void of any gameplay or nuance - when you notice that you capped poetics, you will tp to Radz-at-Han, buy 4 stones, and continue with your day. I still don't understand why do people think this is a good thing. At least anima makes you do some dungeons, trials and then group up with others to farm anima.

And what will EW left behind? Questions in NN - "What is this "V&C" thing?", "I'm on some island and it made me click some nodes, what's the deal with this?". How will you answer these question?

I also think people weren't around to remember HW relic's weren't always this easy. I did mine in HW and I remember having to craft items as they weren't in my Grand company at the time and had to be HQ (I remember blowing up kingscake rather vividly for example) and doing Diadem 2.0 for crystal sand due to the blue scrips tokens as you would have been crazy to try to do it via tomes at the time given you needed umbrite too. Also back in the day you do not want to know the amount of ARF runs I did as it was the "casual" way to get tomes due to each boss giving them instead of loot. Got real good at ARF at least.

[Post]

If you're turning to relics as a gameplay element down the line, you might want to consider the point of relics in the first place. They have some titles and achievements tied to them, sure, but they're mainly meant to be weapons that are easy to obtain from a 'required skill' standpoint. The time grind and timegate are meant to offset this slightly, that's all.

If you feel like there's not enough to do without huge grinds in the game, that's a different issue.

If you feel there's not enough incentive to do what is in the game, that's a different issue still.

Relic being more separated from these issues in this iteration probably feels bad for some players, even simply because it's a change, but I don't think it inherently must be grindy as a system.

As someone who's been running roulettes and dailies since 2016, being made to do the same thing for the latest relic--same old dungeons and all--is nauseating. I get that CBU3 is proud of their work in ARR, but to shove it down our throats constantly is a bit weird. The world has changed a lot in the past ten years, and many games and MMOs have come out since then. They should stop recycling old content to fill the gap. Then again, this is Square Enix and they've fallen on hard times lately with the disappointing sales of FF16.

You can track the relic through HW at least and see that it was always designed to keep the roulette queueing, important story duties moving and players in less populated areas.

Even the Atma step in ARR had players do FATEs in literally every zone except the ones that were popular to level doing FATEs in to make the world feel full of players for the ps4 launch of the game.

[Silver-Strider]

Counterpoint, I love that I can choose to grind tomes in whatever I want instead of their narrow prescribed list of new thing I may hate or specific old content.

Except you can only get the relevant tombstones in level 90 content. Outside of roulettes, your doing the same narrow prescribed list that you've been running for the past year and a half. It's not any different.

Past relics at least brought some life back to older content. Everyone always complains about getting CT in Allaince Roulette but what incentive is there to run anything else? At least the Bozja relic gave you a reason to run Void Ark, Lighthouse, etc. Overworld content is completely barren outside of Hunt trains but when a relic required it, every zone had a zerg of people burning down fates left and right. It made the world feel more active and I'm sure a newbie seeing a hoard of people flying in their HW area killing fates would be pretty inspired to join them.

Each individual step may have been a small list but on the whole, past relics had a much wider reach than this joke of a Relic.

[caffe_macchiato]

You can track the relic through HW at least and see that it was always designed to keep the roulette queueing, important story duties moving and players in less populated areas.

Even the Atma step in ARR had players do FATEs in literally every zone except the ones that were popular to level doing FATEs in to make the world feel full of players for the ps4 launch of the game.

I just wish that video games had advanced just a little bit in the past ten years. We had Bozja, but apparently that was a mistake since everyone should be fine doing roulettes. Isn't it sad that MMOs had such massive advancements in quality and playability between 2003 to 2013, yet have completely flatlined since 2013? We shouldn't want anything better, right? This is the end of the road?

[Elissar]

They considered Hildi questline as part of the grind. I feel like the next one (7.0) will be harder. Relics from heavensward are way easier today too. Probably 7.0 will be eureka-like.

ARR: Masochist
Heavensward: first time hard, next one easier
Stormblood: mild masochist
Shadowbringers: medium
Endwalker: easy

I can't wait to read complains about it

[Stormpeaks]

They considered Hildi questline as part of the grind. I feel like the next one (7.0) will be harder. Relics from heavensward are way easier today too. Probably 7.0 will be eureka-like.

ARR: Masochist
Heavensward: first time hard, next one easier
Stormblood: mild masochist
Shadowbringers: medium
Endwalker: easy

I can't wait to read complains about it

So in your very interesting mindset it has gotten easier for multiple expansions straight back to back so obviously now it's going to be a hard one for next expansion ?

I'm sorry but huh ? lol