Manderville Relic Criticism

[Nezerius]

Counterpoint, I love that I can choose to grind tomes in whatever I want instead of their narrow prescribed list of new thing I may hate or specific old content.

Especially in a game of now 19 jobs. Relics can much more easily be accessed for players interested in gearing alternate jobs for current content.

Why does the amount of jobs matter for the relic? It shouldn't be designed around being able to make one for most/all possible jobs, especially not when it's the current relic step.
There's less grindy alternatives to gearing alternate jobs; an iLvl 640 crafted weapon (upgradable to iLvl 650 in patch 6.5), an iLvl 645 EX Trial weapon, and an iLvl 650 Tomestone of Comedy weapon. That's two relatively quick options (crafting/EX trial), and a time-gated one (7 weekly P12N clears).

With those options in mind, I don't see the big deal of having a grindy one, for the players who enjoy that kinda thing.

[ToniRomo]

The 7.0 relic is just going to be delivered to you every odd patch with a note preemptively thanking you for taking a break from the game.

A reward for giving them money each month so you don't lose your house.

[Madame_Chocolat]

Cope, seethe, mald.

[Striker44]

If you want to farm something by doing essentially any roulette/duty/hunt, then you don't want to farm the relic. You merely want a bonus in form of relic for doing something you would do anyway. Relics became a mere by-product, not a goal.

So, instead you just want to farm some random old dungeon a couple dozen times, because that's somehow more fun or engaging? Personally, I like the freedom to do whatsoever whets my whistle and make progress on the relic at the same time. If it bugs you that much, just create your own specific grind. Let one class use Alliance Raids only, another one Expert Dungeons, another one Hunt Trains, etc.. What I find annoying is - for example - I'm up to the step in the Bozja chain where you need 15 of an item that drops specifically from Level 70 Dungeons or HOH. I have little interest in the Deep Dungeons, and running 15 level 70 dungeons on a now-level 90 class is boring. Doing what I find fun and making progress regardless? Thank you.

Why does the amount of jobs matter for the relic?

Because there comes a certain point where doing the same thing ad nauseum creates burnout. The more jobs there are, the more potential relics you're looking to get, the more you might have to do the same exact grinds over and over and over to do that. Consider how one of the biggest complaints WoW received in Shadowlands was that you were originally forced to have each and every toon you created go through the same story quests, so much a problem that they ended up implementing an "alternate" route that let you get all the xp you needed by doing - get this - whatever you wanted, and then once you hit max level, you could skip the story quests. The relic grind in FFXIV acknowledges that issue by letting you do effectively whatever you want from the start to chip away at the grind.

[Supersnow845]

So, instead you just want to farm some random old dungeon a couple dozen times, because that's somehow more fun or engaging? Personally, I like the freedom to do whatsoever whets my whistle and make progress on the relic at the same time. If it bugs you that much, just create your own specific grind. Let one class use Alliance Raids only, another one Expert Dungeons, another one Hunt Trains, etc.. What I find annoying is - for example - I'm up to the step in the Bozja chain where you need 15 of an item that drops specifically from Level 70 Dungeons or HOH. I have little interest in the Deep Dungeons, and running 15 level 70 dungeons on a now-level 90 class is boring. Doing what I find fun and making progress regardless? Thank you.



Because there comes a certain point where doing the same thing ad nauseum creates burnout. The more jobs there are, the more potential relics you're looking to get, the more you might have to do the same exact grinds over and over and over to do that. Consider how one of the biggest complaints WoW received in Shadowlands was that you were originally forced to have each and every toon you created go through the same story quests, so much a problem that they ended up implementing an "alternate" route that let you get all the xp you needed by doing - get this - whatever you wanted, and then once you hit max level, you could skip the story quests. The relic grind in FFXIV acknowledges that issue by letting you do effectively whatever you want from the start to chip away at the grind.

Except you can’t do whatever you want

You can basically do level 90 dungeons and a select few of the roulettes

Why can’t I do it with eureka, why can’t I do it with POTD, why can’t I do it with ocean fishing

Encouraging the same roulettes that don’t need more incentives isn’t letting you do them however you want


And using the “but what if I want all of them” is a flawed excuse because relics should be balanced around the assumption most people will only get one or maybe 2 and that’s what the overwhelming majority of people will do, balancing around relic collectors isn’t good design

[Koros]

Except you can’t do whatever you want

You can basically do level 90 dungeons and a select few of the roulettes

Why can’t I do it with eureka, why can’t I do it with POTD, why can’t I do it with ocean fishing

Encouraging the same roulettes that don’t need more incentives isn’t letting you do them however you want


And using the “but what if I want all of them” is a flawed excuse because relics should be balanced around the assumption most people will only get one or maybe 2 and that’s what the overwhelming majority of people will do, balancing around relic collectors isn’t good design

lmao they only have like 2 complete post-nerf relics total ever, they aren't even a relic collector

they are just using other people (relic collectors) to justify their argument. they don't speak for relic collectors

if anything relic collectors would actually want a grind so their relics are actually worth bragging about

[DragonFlyy]

Man, remember when people were saying it'd just be the first step that was like this and we were all delusional if we thought steps 2 and 3 would be tomes as well?
Haha
Man

Man remember when people complained endlessly about how grindy and time consuming getting relics were. So the devs listened and now everyone complains that we got EXACTLY what we begged for?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Man remember when people complained endlessly about how grindy and time consuming getting relics were. So the devs listened and now everyone complains that we got EXACTLY what we begged for?

It's human nature to never blame yourself but to always point fault at somebody else.

Nobody wants to admit that they were at fault here. We're all just children.

[Supersnow845]

It's human nature to never blame yourself but to always point fault at somebody else.

Nobody wants to admit that they were at fault here. We're all just children.

Or……and hear me out here

The people complaining the relics are a joke now weren’t the people complaining that they used to be Grindy

I fully admit that they likely changed the relics because of a combo of complaints about eureka and a lack of content to tie them to

That doesn’t change the fact that I’m gonna complain the relics are a joke now, one doesn’t invalidate the other

[Duskane]

Man remember when people complained endlessly about how grindy and time consuming getting relics were. So the devs listened and now everyone complains that we got EXACTLY what we begged for?

"everyone is the one person" post
you are more likely to see complaint over praise of content as most who enjoy it will keep to themselves.