What if we designed other Tank's abilities like they were made for WAR?

[ValkyrieL]

I think shake it off got the healing regen as a result of P8S, bleeding effect was a pain for healers and shake had no coverage besides initial hit. Also shake is not always better than HoL like many claim, there are many raid wides where HoL double dips on mitigation that can save you....regen is not going to save you if you never survive the hit in the 1st place.

[Oizen]

I think shake it off got the healing regen as a result of P8S, bleeding effect was a pain for healers and shake had no coverage besides initial hit. Also shake is not always better than HoL like many claim, there are many raid wides where HoL double dips on mitigation that can save you....regen is not going to save you if you never survive the hit in the 1st place.

I would say that while true there is some places where DM or HoL can shine over Shake, those are the exception and not the status quo, double dipping on mits is good, but rarely is it required.
There are far more situations and content where those two skills are just flat out dead hotbar space, and Shake absolutely thrives. Anything normal mode, heavy focus on physical, deep dungeons, shake is never a bad skill, while HoL and DM can be made absolutely irrelevant. Felt like shit to get a mech like HH and only being able to contribute a Reprisal.

And its obvious to say that Shake does better in situations where HoL thrives, than HoL does in situations where Shake thrives. Its just an all around more powerful, applicable skill.

[Absurdity]

I would say that while true there is some places where DM or HoL can shine over Shake, those are the exception and not the status quo, double dipping on mits is good, but rarely is it required.
There are far more situations and content where those two skills are just flat out dead hotbar space, and Shake absolutely thrives. Anything normal mode, heavy focus on physical, deep dungeons, shake is never a bad skill, while HoL and DM can be made absolutely irrelevant. Felt like shit to get a mech like HH and only being able to contribute a Reprisal.

And its obvious to say that Shake does better in situations where HoL thrives, than HoL does in situations where Shake thrives. Its just an all around more powerful, applicable skill.

Which is partially a problem with Endwalker's fight design. We don't get back-to-back magical aoes where DM or HoL would get more value, instead we get 1 big aoe followed by 30+ seconds of nothing.

[Shurrikhan]

Which is partially a problem with Endwalker's fight design. We don't get back-to-back magical aoes where DM or HoL would get more value, instead we get 1 big aoe followed by 30+ seconds of nothing.

Which would allow for a painfully easy fix in the name of balance... without even having to touch the kits.

(Yes, encounter redesign is a larger endeavor than adding a new property to an existing skills, but frankly we really ought to have more damage intake anyways.)

[Oizen]

Which is partially a problem with Endwalker's fight design. We don't get back-to-back magical aoes where DM or HoL would get more value, instead we get 1 big aoe followed by 30+ seconds of nothing.

Thats not going to change the damage types used in other content, Magic damage in something like a Deep Dungeon or Criterion add-phase is significantly more rare.

[GoatOfWar]

Browsing the forums and other online discussion platforms it just seems like Warriors want to be the best at everything, and will gatekeep other tanks for the sake of ''uniqueness'' when they don't play the inferior tanks.
I highly doubt they'll ever accept meaningful changes to the other tanks. Jank makes them unique, you see. Don't homogenise my game!
Warrior getting the same, and better tools than the other tanks while having no jank of it's own is different though, because apparently Warrior really needs to be the best at everything.

[Shurrikhan]

I still don't get the idea, thematically / as it'd fit to Warrior's aesthetic, of Nascent Flash. I could understand some manner of War Cry where up to 4 wounded allies within 10 yalms of you split a 50% Bloodbath buff for 6 seconds or so, but some weird sort of channeling vampiric energies directly? It just feels so out of place.

Same with the healing on Shake it Off, though not quite as badly.

Heck, I'd gladly just replace both Nascent and Shake it Off with a 2-charge 90s-recast dynamic skill that spreads your latest personal buff to nearby allies at reduced/split effect. No Nascent Flash, no Shake it Off. The prior is replaced by Bloodwhetting, which is now pure healing opposite Raw Intuition's pure mitigation.

Instead, you'd just have War Cry, and you get to decide what to spread with it. Thrill of Battle's current and maximum HP? Raw Intuition's mitigation? Vengeance's counterattacks (for rDPS against spam AoE damage)? Inner Release's knockback immunity? Bloodwhetting's Leech effect? Use it smartly, because you only get the one per 90s.

[Lyth]

I wish they kept a changelog of the actions (including added and removed actions) on the FFXIV job pages. You can still retrospectively piece the timeline of changes together if you put in some effort, but it should be a lot more transparent to the end user.

The raidwide heal on Shake it Off and Divine Veil was added on Endwalker's launch (02/12/2021). It's a bit of a strange decision for starters, because they were already superior to Dark Missionary and Heart of Light. The regen effect on Shake it Off looks like it was added on 10/01/2023, which would have been Patch 6.3. It's a bit of a strange choice because bubble shields can absorb damage from DoT ticks as well as of this expansion.

I think what they need to do is just put all of the tanks' raidwide mitigation side-by-side. I'll do it now.

Paladin:
Lv. 56. Recast: 90s, Range 30y.
Creates a barrier around self and all party members near you that absorbs damage equivalent to 10% of your maximum HP. Duration: 30s.
Additional Effect: Restores target's HP, Cure Potency: 400.

Lv. 70. Recast: 90s, Range 8y.
Increases block rate to 100% and creates a designated area in a cone behind you in which party members will only suffer 85% of all damage inflicted. Duration: 18s.
Effect ends upon using another action or moving (including facing a different direction).
Cancels auto-attack upon execution.

Warrior:
Lv. 68. Recast: 90s, Range 30y.
Creates a barrier around self and all nearby party members that absorbs damage totaling 15% of maximum HP.
Dispels Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, and Bloodwhetting, increasing damage absorbed by 2% for each effect removed. Duration: 30s
Additional Effect: Gradually restores HP. Cure Potency: 100 Duration: 15s.
Additional Effect: Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 300.

Dark Knight
Lv. 76. Recast: 90s, Range 30y.
Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration: 15s.

Gunbreaker:
Lv. 64. Recast: 90s, Range 30y.
Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration: 15s.

Looks balanced, right? It's especially funny when you remember that Dark Missionary and Heart of Light were introduced one expansion later. This is the same balance team that actually thought it was 'balanced' for a tank to be down 1-2 raidwide mitigation actions compared to the others.

If they want a fair gameplay experience, they have to go back to the drawing board and redesign these abilities. The easiest solution without any bloat is to just remove all of them and have tanks rely exclusively on Reprisal, which is supposedly why it was handed out to every tank job in the first place. If you don't want to do that, the alternative is to create four unique actions that each provide a different benefit. For example:

Passage of Arms:
Increases block rate to 100% and creates a designated area in a cone behind you in which party members will only suffer 90% of all damage inflicted, and prevents draw-in and knockback effects. Restores HP over time. You may move into this area once activated.

Divine Veil: Removed.

Shake it Off:
Increases maximum HP of self and all nearby party members by 10% and restores the amount increased.
Dispels Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, and Bloodwhetting, applying the following effects:
Thrill of Battle: Healing actions on self generate healing on nearby party members.
Vengeance: Increases maximum HP of self and all party members by 2%.
Bloodwhetting: Restores additional HP to party members for every weaponskill delivered.

Dark Missionary:
Creates a personal barrier around self and nearby party members that absorbs damage totaling 10% of maximum HP.
Grants Dark Bond: Increases movement speed by 10%. Effect can jump to a nearby player. You cannot reacquire Dark Bond once it has been passed on. All players receive healing proportionate to the amount of times this effect was passed when it expires.

Heart of Light:
Creates a field in which absorbs incoming raidwide damage proportional to the number of players inside. Any damage in excess of the total is split equally between players within its area. When the effect ends or the barrier shatters, restores HP to all nearby players.

Either way, they should do a formal review of the raidwide mitigation tools on tanks and either reduce it to one unique job specific action each or just stick to Reprisal in isolation. And the magical damage only criteria needs to go.

[Marxam]

snip

The only issue I see with SiO and DM is that they pair too well. It's one of the reasons why a WAR with ToB and SiO and SCH with protraction and crit adlo with DT is borderline busted when it comes to mitigation. Flat mitigation only really see's value in instances were its constant dmg like HH. This game is designed with big burst dmg upfront and that needs to change.

I personally would have preferred if SiO was an aoe ToB but WAR in general should have just been increasing HP cds. BW/NF should have been a 15% HP (first 4 secs) dropping to 5% HP (last 4 secs) instead of a small shield and rampart effect. Leave the shields to DRK and introduce other shield cds similar to haima to complement DRK's cds themes.

I will always say, they need to consider splitting the tanks into eHP (WAR/DRK) and flat mit (PLD/GNB) tanks. They lean towards that type of cds and universal cds should be placed in the role actions list similar to how Provoke and Rampart are. Maybe add Vengeance to that list as well since all the other tanks seems to want it too. This will allow the devs to have some focus when it comes to designing for said jobs and what cds they will get instead of just giving everything to each job similar to what BW, HoC and HS are currently at with their wall of texts.

They can focus on their design and simplify the process, i.e.:

-WAR = High HP burst heals
-DRK = High Shields small heals/regens
-PLD = High Blocking burst heals
-GNB = High Parry small heals/regens

[vetch]

I still don't get the idea, thematically / as it'd fit to Warrior's aesthetic, of Nascent Flash. I could understand some manner of War Cry where up to 4 wounded allies within 10 yalms of you split a 50% Bloodbath buff for 6 seconds or so, but some weird sort of channeling vampiric energies directly? It just feels so out of place.

Same with the healing on Shake it Off, though not quite as badly.

Heck, I'd gladly just replace both Nascent and Shake it Off with a 2-charge 90s-recast dynamic skill that spreads your latest personal buff to nearby allies at reduced/split effect. No Nascent Flash, no Shake it Off. The prior is replaced by Bloodwhetting, which is now pure healing opposite Raw Intuition's pure mitigation.

Instead, you'd just have War Cry, and you get to decide what to spread with it. Thrill of Battle's current and maximum HP? Raw Intuition's mitigation? Vengeance's counterattacks (for rDPS against spam AoE damage)? Inner Release's knockback immunity? Bloodwhetting's Leech effect? Use it smartly, because you only get the one per 90s.

Didn't you get the design memo? Consistent job theming is out, stapling numbers to other numbers is in.