Bring back Kaiten please

[Soge01]

What's surprising about that? Kenki became yet another regulated gauge, following all of SE's norms and technical standards. 0-100, don't overcap it, pool it for burst, rinse and repeat.

What I mean is Kenki has nothing to be spent on other than Shinten and its AoE counterpart in exchange for Kaiten's removal. Its a pretty big oversight and should have been addressed, like, more than a year ago, lol!

It would have been better if the more Kenki you had, your Shinten and Shinten AoE would "evolve", dealing greater damage with a completely different animation in exchange for more Kenki, the higher the gauge is. You know, as a brainless example to fix the Kenki gauge spending problem.

[thevanguard]

Well, now that Samurai just uses Shinten all the time, looks like the problem is actually Shinten no?

Instead of giving back Kaiten it looks like we shall remove Shinten.

Oh my, that means you'll only use Kenki on Senei now. Hmm, that means Kenki is redundant since you always use it on Senei. So let's remove Kenki altogether

[Deo14]

What I mean is Kenki has nothing to be spent on other than Shinten and its AoE counterpart in exchange for Kaiten's removal. Its a pretty big oversight and should have been addressed, like, more than year ago, lol!

It would have been better if the more Kenki you had, your Shinten and Shinten AoE would "evolve", dealing greater damage with a completely different animation in exchange for more Kenki, the higher the gauge is.

It was just a sarcastic remark towards SE dumbing everything down and homogenizing even gauges.

That idea is definitely interesting, but I'm not sure how would it work in this game. Doing 1 big hit instead of multiple small hits will be pretty bad in current 2min meta, it would probably become guaranteed hit. And I don't think there would be really choice which version you want to use. If bigger hit had more potency per Kenki, it would be always used. If it had same potency per Kenki, then it will probably still be used, because it would be easier.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If they want to remove button bloat, why do Cure 1, Benefic, and Physick not become their upgrades? Why do healers have so many tools they barely have to make use of?[...]

Who knows? At this point, I'm quite convinced none of them plays healer beyond lv30-50 & its starting job quest to even notice this lmao.

Also Undraw at lv30: :exist:

Why does SMN Physick not scale properly/not become a Phoenix spell/even exist?

A joke that I made not long ago: "Maybe they realized removing Physick off will make their hotbar even more barren than it already is without that little sparkly icon lmao."

Not sure about Scathe. Although I remember reading some PotD solo guide had wrote that BLMs had to rely on kiting with Scathe to survive in their climb, so 'eh'(?)

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Personally, I have no issue with their intent to reduce button bloat. But they could not have done it anyway worse than that. To add insult to the injury, that one element that I enjoy was taken away without given anything meaningful in return.

[Aravell]

Their reasoning behind its removal imho doesn't makes any sense at all. If they want to reduce the bloat then why Shoha II exist; why can't Ikishoten be merged with Ougi Namikiri; why can't Senei & Guren combined into full damage at first target with AoE damage fall off?

They actually said they wanted to remove the bloat of actions to be used within burst iirc, not button bloat. Which they also completely failed to do, because every Kaiten is now replaced with a Shinten, leading to almost the same number of buttons being used in burst. In the end, the Kaiten removal was pointless.

[Deo14]

They actually said they wanted to remove the bloat of actions to be used within burst iirc, not button bloat. Which they also completely failed to do, because every Kaiten is now replaced with a Shinten, leading to almost the same number of buttons being used in burst. In the end, the Kaiten removal was pointless.

Not even almost, it's exactly identical:

[Boblawblah]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

[Deo14]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

If you want to close both your eyes while defining "essentially", then yes, but Kaiten killed Kenki management and made Shinten 20-23% of SAM's all actions, meaning that on average, every 5th button you press is Shinten.

Might be comparable to RDM's black and white mana spells - they essentially do same things, so it makes sense to remove all white or all black spells, right?

[WantlessYoYo]

Don't know what you guys talking about he's right there /s

[Boblawblah]

If you want to close both your eyes while defining "essentially", then yes, but Kaiten killed Kenki management and made Shinten 20-23% of SAM's all actions, meaning that on average, every 5th button you press is Shinten.

Might be comparable to RDM's black and white mana spells - they essentially do same things, so it makes sense to remove all white or all black spells, right?

Snark is always the best way to argue your point.