Bring back Kaiten please

[Soge01]

It was just a sarcastic remark towards SE dumbing everything down and homogenizing even gauges.

That idea is definitely interesting, but I'm not sure how would it work in this game. Doing 1 big hit instead of multiple small hits will be pretty bad in current 2min meta, it would probably become guaranteed hit. And I don't think there would be really choice which version you want to use. If bigger hit had more potency per Kenki, it would be always used. If it had same potency per Kenki, then it will probably still be used, because it would be easier.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Yeah, I wouldn't know how such an idea would work with this current meta, either. It was really the first thing to come to mind as a potential solution since if Shinten and AoE Shinten are all we'll be able to use the Kenki gauge for, then we might as well get some sort bonus effect for said skills that help us drain the Kenki gauge without always being forced to spam.

return Tenka Gokken to a cone too while youre at it, please

I miss how good that move felt when weaving in out between groups of mobs. Just...made you feel like you were more skilled at the job. :<

[Shinkuno]

Unpopular opinion, but I understand "why" they removed it and therefore don't blame them for that reason.

Unless I am wrong, there wasn't a single instance where you'd NOT use Kaiten before an Iaijutsu, not using it on one was basically a failstate and using it on old combo finishers as well, given the potency difference. This is different from buttons like old Dark Arts, Life Surge, Reassemble etc. where you did use instances of the skills you usually enhance as their unenhanced version, save for Carve and Spit, that small MP vs losing 350 potency was laughable.

So while we may have liked it, it was basically a soft-mandatory button press before every Higanbana / Tenka Gokken / Midare Setsugekka if you played seriously as not doing so was a fairly sizeable damage loss if you repeated it over time. So I can see why they dropped it out of the sky and called it Button Bloat, even if worse skills like Shoha II exist.

We need different Kenki spenders, but I feel like Kaiten wasn't it. What I do miss however is Hissatsu: Seigan instead of just gaining flat +10 Kenki on Third Eye.

This argument is so bad. Because there are so many abilities that you always want to press before/after or on cooldown. If we removed everything we would be left with almost nothing.

[Noox-115]

Im honestly glad its gone I started to play SAM a bit more after because I always found that move was a bit cringe its like go go weeb power :/ but that's my taste I was mad when DRG lost its timer and blue aura it was cool to use and made dragoon more challenging but I think that all of this is Yoshi-P plan to make the game easier and easier more and more and I know its a just move for both Kaiten and Blood of the Dragon but its Iconic moves and removing them is sad

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

At least with Kaiten and their Hissatsus larger kenki cost back in ShB, I felt I had to be mindful with my Shintens to have enough to dump Senei & 2 Kaitens at the looping reopeners. EW launch reduced the cost but it still had Kaiten so hey uh, I still had to be mindful, just slightly less. Nowaday it's just Shinone Shintwo Shinthree Shinfour Shinfive Shinsix Shinseven Shineight Shinnine Shinten lmfao. Ikishoten guarantees you'll able to pump off Senei it takes another level of unawareness to not have it ready.

Their reasoning behind its removal imho doesn't makes any sense at all. If they want to reduce the bloat then why Shoha II exist; why can't Ikishoten be merged with Ougi Namikiri; why can't Senei & Guren combined into full damage at first target with AoE damage fall off?

... Yeah, no. I've dropped SAM even though I've been only a casual enjoyer of the job from beginning---it was fun to play it until they take that element away.

Maybe next thing they'll do is to remove the gauge and give Shinten its own short cooldown with charges lmao. "Let the game play it for you" as some people says.

[Zebraoracle]

At least with Kaiten and their Hissatsus larger kenki cost back in ShB, I felt I had to be mindful with my Shintens to have enough to dump Senei & 2 Kaitens at the looping reopeners. EW launch reduced the cost but it still had Kaiten so hey uh, I still had to be mindful, just slightly less. Nowaday it's just Shinone Shintwo Shinthree Shinfour Shinfive Shinsix Shinseven Shineight Shinnine Shinten lmfao. Ikishoten guarantees you'll able to pump off Senei it takes another level of unawareness to not have it ready.

Their reasoning behind its removal imho doesn't makes any sense at all. If they want to reduce the bloat then why Shoha II exist; why can't Ikishoten be merged with Ougi Namikiri; why can't Senei & Guren combined into full damage at first target with AoE damage fall off?

... Yeah, no. I've dropped SAM even though I've been only a casual enjoyer of the job from beginning---it was fun to play it until they take that element away.

If they want to remove button bloat, why do Cure 1, Benefic, and Physick not become their upgrades? Why do healers have so many tools they barely have to make use of? Why does SMN Physick not scale properly/not become a Phoenix spell/even exist? Why does Scathe exist?

[Aravell]

Their reasoning behind its removal imho doesn't makes any sense at all. If they want to reduce the bloat then why Shoha II exist; why can't Ikishoten be merged with Ougi Namikiri; why can't Senei & Guren combined into full damage at first target with AoE damage fall off?

They actually said they wanted to remove the bloat of actions to be used within burst iirc, not button bloat. Which they also completely failed to do, because every Kaiten is now replaced with a Shinten, leading to almost the same number of buttons being used in burst. In the end, the Kaiten removal was pointless.

[Deo14]

They actually said they wanted to remove the bloat of actions to be used within burst iirc, not button bloat. Which they also completely failed to do, because every Kaiten is now replaced with a Shinten, leading to almost the same number of buttons being used in burst. In the end, the Kaiten removal was pointless.

Not even almost, it's exactly identical:

[thevanguard]

Well, now that Samurai just uses Shinten all the time, looks like the problem is actually Shinten no?

Instead of giving back Kaiten it looks like we shall remove Shinten.

Oh my, that means you'll only use Kenki on Senei now. Hmm, that means Kenki is redundant since you always use it on Senei. So let's remove Kenki altogether

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If they want to remove button bloat, why do Cure 1, Benefic, and Physick not become their upgrades? Why do healers have so many tools they barely have to make use of?[...]

Who knows? At this point, I'm quite convinced none of them plays healer beyond lv30-50 & its starting job quest to even notice this lmao.

Also Undraw at lv30: :exist:

Why does SMN Physick not scale properly/not become a Phoenix spell/even exist?

A joke that I made not long ago: "Maybe they realized removing Physick off will make their hotbar even more barren than it already is without that little sparkly icon lmao."

Not sure about Scathe. Although I remember reading some PotD solo guide had wrote that BLMs had to rely on kiting with Scathe to survive in their climb, so 'eh'(?)

---

Personally, I have no issue with their intent to reduce button bloat. But they could not have done it anyway worse than that. To add insult to the injury, that one element that I enjoy was taken away without given anything meaningful in return.

[Boblawblah]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?