Revisiting the 10 year roadmap

[TheDecay]

It basically looks like they got negative feedback, they got mad that they got negative feedback, they double down on the changes that people are voicing their discontent towards, then they get more negative feedback and then it continues onwards.

It sounds like you're trying to say that the issue was that the players gave negative feedback in the first place.

These two points you said are inextricably linked. It is only because there are people who attack criticizers and hurl foul abuse at them that CBU3 dares to display contempt for the unsatisfied portion of the playerbase. Like father, like son indeed.

[Dzian]

It's much worse than that; the jobs aren't balanced where A is good at X, B is good at Y, etc.

Oh I agree. But that's an issue with xov content design. Such was demonstrated back in heavensward... where paladin was a solid physical tank but pretty naff at magical..

But the content was nearly all magical damage so paladin got shafted..

The other issue is xiv raids are literally 1 room with 1 boss. So again no room for variance or diversity..

They stripped away, dumbed down and simplified everything so much it doesn't even qualify as an rpg anymore. All that matters is dps and who brings most..

You can't diversify jobs or make them interesting when there's no interesting mechanical game systems for them to interact with..

[Post]

I found playing AST in Vanaspati the other day more stressful than in TOP, probably because it's a job that is designed for those 1 room, 1 boss encounters and nothing else. The moment there's an uneven number of ranged/melee card buff targets, different synchs on jobs buffing themselves because trash and bosses don't fit into the tight 2 min meta and variable amounts of skill or any amount of forced downtime it just becomes a mess -- My condolences to BRD, which has its 2 min not only tied to its ability to shoot something every 40 sec for its songs but also has to choose to buff either its mage's ballad for all the trash or its wanderer's minuet for the boss and at pace is basically locked into one rotation for the whole dungeon.

AST is at 'Z' with its card system when it was at 'M' before. Sure, balance was the best when you're playing with your Ultimate group but hell if it wasn't convenient (and fun) to load your 4 man dungeon tank up with 55 seconds of 30% bole mitigation and a ton of regens. God help any solo RPG players that latch onto that job if they don't change course.

They do have a tendency to overcorrect issues players have, is my point. Take the ground targeted actions. Largely fixed now, and basically only NIN shukuchi exists anymore; caster lb and healer fields are gargantuan.

I predict they'll finally fix tab targeting now that bosses rarely have adds when there's still a boss that's attackable anymore.

I also worry that things like current SMN are seen as acceptable for a few years of subscription if they've got a direction in mind for it next expansion. Compared to even most ARR jobs or feels like it's missing half of its actions. My very casual anecdotal friend went from loving SMN at 80 to being so bored of it in EW we leveled a fresh job to 90 when he came back to the game finally.

[Semirhage]

I found playing AST in Vanaspati the other day more stressful than in TOP

I wish Vanaspati were stressful. Last time I ran it I went as Scholar and got a WAR. As soon as we zoned in, he said "healer don't heal me". So I didn't. I spent the entire dungeon, wall to wall pulls, spamming Art of War and Broil, with occasional Energy Drains, Chain Strats, and Biolysises. Not a single other ability, GCD, oGCD, none of it.

But I've been accused of being a dirty elitist; healers are super fun as-is, all that's needed is a tiny bit of encounter design shakeup. Super fun, best designed RPG ever. :eyeroll: (not directed at you, just Vanaspati brought it up)

[TheDecay]

I found playing AST in Vanaspati the other day more stressful than in TOP, probably because it's a job that is designed for those 1 room, 1 boss encounters and nothing else. The moment there's an uneven number of ranged/melee card buff targets, different synchs on jobs buffing themselves because trash and bosses don't fit into the tight 2 min meta and variable amounts of skill or any amount of forced downtime it just becomes a mess -- My condolences to BRD, which has its 2 min not only tied to its ability to shoot something every 40 sec for its songs but also has to choose to buff either its mage's ballad for all the trash or its wanderer's minuet for the boss and at pace is basically locked into one rotation for the whole dungeon.

AST is at 'Z' with its card system when it was at 'M' before. Sure, balance was the best when you're playing with your Ultimate group but hell if it wasn't convenient (and fun) to load your 4 man dungeon tank up with 55 seconds of 30% bole mitigation and a ton of regens. God help any solo RPG players that latch onto that job if they don't change course.

They do have a tendency to overcorrect issues players have, is my point. Take the ground targeted actions. Largely fixed now, and basically only NIN shukuchi exists anymore; caster lb and healer fields are gargantuan.

I predict they'll finally fix tab targeting now that bosses rarely have adds when there's still a boss that's attackable anymore.

I also worry that things like current SMN are seen as acceptable for a few years of subscription if they've got a direction in mind for it next expansion. Compared to even most ARR jobs or feels like it's missing half of its actions. My very casual anecdotal friend went from loving SMN at 80 to being so bored of it in EW we leveled a fresh job to 90 when he came back to the game finally.

But here's the catch: your friend might be bored but many are not bored because they play this game one hour a month while ERPing full time. This is the demographic SE is catering to now.

[Jojoya]

But here's the catch: your friend might be bored but many are not bored because they play this game one hour a month while ERPing full time. This is the demographic SE is catering to now.

In the end, it doesn't matter what demographic you think SE may be catering to. Someone doesn't have to be part of the target demographic to enjoy the game just as someone who is a member of the demographic may dislike it immensely.

All the snide remarks and jabs at other players won't change things.

The only question that should matter to a player: is this a game you (generic you, not referring to TheDecay the poster specifically) still enjoy and want to continue playing in its current state?

How others feel about the game is irrelevant. In the end, we are all playing for our personal enjoyment and not theirs. Outside of the brainwashed social media sheep, no one is going to stop enjoying a game just because someone else says they don't (or start enjoying it simply because someone else says they do).

If someone is not enjoying it, it makes no sense to continue wasting time and money on it. Leave any relevant feedback (if it hasn't already been done) and move on.

If for some masochistic reason someone does continue to waste money on a game they aren't enjoying, I'm sure the developers appreciate the support.

[Post]

But here's the catch: your friend might be bored but many are not bored because they play this game one hour a month while ERPing full time. This is the demographic SE is catering to now.

I think this is an important point (no, really) because battle content is not all of the game, but a smaller aspect of the game that certain players gravitate towards. It's technically different than housing and ERP in that it's not entirely skippable; the MSQ locks a lot of content behind a good chunk of it.

But, following Jojoya's sentiment a bit, if it's not so difficult that one player in a group of 8 or your patient duty support NPCs or your solo duty echo buff can't get you through the mandatory bits, what type of player do the battles and jobs feel designed for? The ones that enjoy that stuff and like to spend their time doing more or redoing it, or ones that just want to get past the gates to get the rewards they actually enjoy?

And granted there's a lot of overlap between these types of players, but damn if there weren't at least more dungeons added every patch until ShB, and more diversity among the jobs within a single role until then too.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm glad that those other playstyles are catered to, but this battle/job area has been feeling neglected for what was once a more core focus. Maybe the mandatory MSQ progression overlap has been affecting much more than even the mandatory content itself

[DixieBellOCE]

The sad fact is that there are free games out there that have bigger and better content releases than XIV gets every 8 months (Yes, its 8 months now, not 6!)

At this point, XIV and its Expansions needs to go Buy2play. There should not be a subscription unless content is going to be developed and released at a faster rate than f2p games.

Guild Wars 2 does a great job of this: Buy the game and each expansion once, and you can play it whenever you want, no subscription required, Drop it for 1 year, come back and just pick up where you left off without having to pay $15/month.

[Ath192]

The sad fact is that there are free games out there that have bigger and better content releases than XIV gets every 8 months (Yes, its 8 months now, not 6!)

At this point, XIV and its Expansions needs to go Buy2play. There should not be a subscription unless content is going to be developed and released at a faster rate than f2p games.

Guild Wars 2 does a great job of this: Buy the game and each expansion once, and you can play it whenever you want, no subscription required, Drop it for 1 year, come back and just pick up where you left off without having to pay $15/month.

Yes I agree. The content of this game between expansions is no where near justifying its price. I WOULD PREFER to keep paying the sub but get a lot more content, but since they are allergic to doing so this would be the next best option.

[Rufalus]

There should not be a subscription unless content is going to be developed and released at a faster rate than f2p games.

Incredibly even FF XI is still asking for subscription money beyond its 20th anniversary, with a skeleton crew left to support it. And we can't play both games on a single subscription, must separately pay in full for each game, each month. Leadership of this division really aren't interested in trying different business models.