XVI and XIV implications

[Ath192]

I'm not sure I would call "dodge incoming attacks" a strategy. Auto-regen is a strategy. Utilizing buffs and debuffs is a strategy as well, even investing in attack heavy characters and building them up to be one hit killers is a strategy.

Actually it had to be considered one because there are several paths to dealing with an attack. 1. dodge 2. Block 3. Parry 4. Overpower

For example if you cast an ability as Clive he gets super armor where he doesn't get interrupted. You get damaged as well but damage your enemy and potentially break their stance.

[SieyaM]

Actually it had to be considered one because there are several paths to dealing with an attack. 1. dodge 2. Block 3. Parry 4. Overpower

For example if you cast an ability as Clive he gets super armor where he doesn't get interrupted. You get damaged as well but damage your enemy and potentially break their stance.

I didn't know games like DMC were so strategy heavy then

[Ath192]

I didn't know games like DMC were so strategy heavy then

Hardly, but not completely void of them.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Actually it had to be considered one because there are several paths to dealing with an attack. 1. dodge 2. Block 3. Parry 4. Overpower

For example if you cast an ability as Clive he gets super armor where he doesn't get interrupted. You get damaged as well but damage your enemy and potentially break their stance.

TBH that example isn't really strategy. It's more akin to simply committing the correct reaction to muscle memory. Strategy would be more akin to the action games that actually give you meaningful options to customize your gear loadout or abilities to prepare for a boss fight or area which a number of them do better than FF16.

IMO the issue with FF16 isn't the action based combat. FF15 gave us that as well but also provided us with an open world (though it suffered from a common issue with open world games where it feels considerably empty) while still also keeping a majority of staple RPG mechanics and features. FF16 feels like a step backwards where a majority of what was expected of a FF series title was thrown away to copy another game series from a different genre and simply keeping enough to validate them slapping the Final Fantasy label on it.

Honestly I'd have no problem with the mainline Final Fantasy series being an actual action RPG going forward. I would just hope that by doing so they decide to keep the mainline Dragon Quest series in it's traditional turn based format. However for the mainline FF series to continue as an action RPG they need to step up on the actual game content rather than making a short lived flashy spectacle that drops substantially in sales in just it's second week.

Edit: I even ordered FF16 merch for the game's best character. Torgal plushie is mine... >.>

[Ath192]

TBH that example isn't really strategy. It's more akin to simply committing the correct reaction to muscle memory. Strategy would be more akin to the action games that actually give you meaningful options to customize your gear loadout or abilities to prepare for a boss fight or area which a number of them do better than FF16.
>

It is strategy because there is no correct answer. Whether you attempt to dodge or parry or block every attack is down to what you plan on doing and nothing else.

Since you are planning on it it is strategy. Strategy normally involves what approach you are going to take to a given battle. Just because it’s simple doesn’t mean it isn’t a strategy.

strat·e·gy
/ˈstradəjē/
noun
a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim.

Given the definition of strategy if your plan of action is to parry every attack possible and heal when you fail then that is your strategy to achieve the overall aim of winning. In your strategy, blocking would be secondary or not used.

Likewise your strategy to beat a boss could be run around like a coward spamming ranged attacks and nothing else. It’s a bad strategy but one nonetheless lol.

[Rufalus]

This business style is taking the fun out of gaming. If XIV has another decade of FORMULA FANTASY, I don't know how long I will last. There's nothing left to milk out of this content pattern. Ok you wait several months for the next piece of a 3-part raid series and tomestones of a different name, you do your muscle memory rotation against the new instanced bosses, you get your new gear which doesn't alter the finely-tuned job gameplay at all and just increases your numbers slightly. Content isn't meaningful and items aren't important. I'm not confident in there ever being a great FF game again. I could flip back to being a fan so easily if they just announce anything surprising at fan fest. Not a narrative swerve, an actual gameplay system that feels new.

[MonsutaMan]

The most strategy was in XI & XIII by far imo.

A organized 6 man pt can take down things 18-man alliances do if you are coordinated with your skill chains, magic bursting, buffs & heals. A good BST can take own things 18-man alliances takedown.....I did during the Abyssea era.
(Man BST was so awesome.....)

XIII was stress inducing at times.......Alot going on it seemed at the time. It was also a slight switch up from the last entry. Took some getting used to.

I actually liked XIII's battle system. This is the way to go imo if turnbase makes a comeback (As it should since XVI's sales fallen off Mount Everest after doing solid the 1st week).

[Atelier-Bagur]

I'm not sure I would call "dodge incoming attacks" a strategy. Auto-regen is a strategy. Utilizing buffs and debuffs is a strategy as well, even investing in attack heavy characters and building them up to be one hit killers is a strategy.

Wow such great strategies. Get stronger.

Seriously not much different than "don't get hit". Like I said, the strategy elements in most previous FF games we're minimal at best. Emphasize on "most".

I'll still sing praises to FFV's boss designs that requires more thought and creativity from the player but FF1-3 are just as simple as FFXVI with FFIV barely having more depth thanks to the ATB and counters.

[Atelier-Bagur]

It does. The game is just so easy you can button mash through it. Now, I can see you refusing to recognize it because the game lacks so much depth but it's there. For example in plenty of battles when I botched a dodge or was unsure I tended to use an ability to trigger the super armor and I wouldn't get thrown around at very least. That was my strat. I tried parrying for a while but I wasn't consistent enough and it wasn't worth the hassle.

The game does attempt to force not using ranged most of the time since it does so little, but you can main it nonetheless.

I would also say only like 10% of all attacks in game were unblockable and or area attacks. Each boss only had one or two abilities that were like that. The rest were standard movesets. Especially when it came to trash mobs, which were a higher volume of enemies vs the boss battles.

Button mashing only gets you so far. I hope to assume we're talking about not using the accessibility accessories, because you still get damaged when you do your Eikon abilities and later bosses have actual counters to spam heavy moves.

Honestly the game becomes more of learning when to dodge and counter, which is still satisfying. It baffles me what people are looking into fights if they believe that FFXVI is much boring than previous games combat systems.

They're all the same level of quality imo. And no, this doesn't mean I think the games combat is amazing. It's ok, just like all the other combat systems were just OK.

Want an actual fun action rpg combat, play any of the Tales games or heck even Kingdom Hearts 2 FM on Critical Mode.

Trash mobs are still somewhat of a joke.

[Ath192]

Button mashing only gets you so far. I hope to assume we're talking about not using the accessibility accessories, because you still get damaged when you do your Eikon abilities and later bosses have actual counters to spam heavy moves.

Honestly the game becomes more of learning when to dodge and counter, which is still satisfying. It baffles me what people are looking into fights if they believe that FFXVI is much boring than previous games combat systems.

They're all the same level of quality imo. And no, this doesn't mean I think the games combat is amazing. It's ok, just like all the other combat systems were just OK.

Want an actual fun action rpg combat, play any of the Tales games or heck even Kingdom Hearts 2 FM on Critical Mode.

Trash mobs are still somewhat of a joke.

No of course no handicaps were used. But I absolutely felt the game was easier than it should’ve been. Button mashing was used as hyperbole for not having to know how to combo actions correctly and being able to spam Dodges and random abilities without thinking too much about it. This is why people think the game has no strategy it has a rather low bar of difficulty.

I’ll give you a small example. Even though casual, the burn in storm blood left a lasting impression on most people because that dragon would wreck you. It wasn’t super hard or anything but it did score kills. Party members had to collaborate a bit. Unfortunately, I already beat XVI and I can’t recall a fight ever making me feel like that or that I will remember because it took me a few tries. I will remember some for their cool effects.

But yeah. I just developed a very basic approach to the game early on and basically walked in and owned everything that stood in my way with little difficulty. I also haven’t heard anyone say the game is hard either.

I do know what you mean in the later bosses. Some of them did manage to cancel my abilities occasionally and i had to wait for the cooldown, but seldom enough that I could just keep doing the same stuff without having to rethink my strat.

Being a Fantastically stubborn person you have no idea how many bodies I threw at the first boss in elden ring though, and malenia. I would consider those on the higher end of the casual difficulty spectrum. There were ways to cheese but I legit ran in there with no magic and just straight up tanked and spanked them, after like 50 deaths.