XVI and XIV implications

[Ath192]

I liked XVI quite a bit.

1. I play single player titles for the story and thats what I got.
2. I wanted a darker story and thats what I got.
3. I'm a graphics junky and I got excellent graphics.
4. Gameplay wasn't boring to me because I was progressing towards an end, but it was rather easy and mindless. Something I don't mind when I'm just playing for the story.

So, I would rate XVI 9/10 IMO, great job, not perfect but still great. Also, considering the buggy messes game releases are now a days the game was surprisingly polished, albeit not perfect. A lot of work goes into that so it must be acknowledged.

Unfortunately to me XVI has reinforced my belief that CBU III or whoever is making all the decisions for this unit, maybe Yoshi P is solely responsible, maybe not, is better suited to making single player titles than MMOs. Both of these games are polar opposites in what most people look for in games and while CBU III design philosophy delivers in a game with a set end and people wanting to see the story without wasting too much time travelling or mastering combat and exploring it falls extremely short on an MMO game where the story matters but guess what.... People play them to waste time, master the combat and do spend time crafting and exploring. And so this easy to digest, quick to master and get through approach kills a lot of joy from XIV imo.

Anyways, implications:
1. CBU III knows how to make good graphics, this is a great sign for graphics overhaul. Won't be near XVI levels, but they know how to make things look good, so their experience on the subject matters.

2. Systems will keep getting easier and more basic because that is what CBU III does well, ease of use. Job complexity/depth is probably going away forever.

3. Exploration and creativity is not going to get fostered or done well for the rest of XIV's life imo. CBU III enjoys heavily guiding and restricting players to exactly what they want them to do and nothing else. Seen in XIVs linear design and further reinforced in XVI.

And that sums it up. I am not sure I feel excited for the future, but hopefully I can get proven wrong, or that CBU III reads this, and tries to change their design philosophy for the MMO. It is time to try something new after all...

A giant lobby where everyone just sits around doing nothing after the MSQ and insta queuing to linear dungeons over and over again is really tired imo.


I would buy another single player title and would be excited for it from CBU III, however. It's just the MMO outside of MSQ mode that needs work or they can't do.

[R041]

It's weird to say, but I would almost prefer the smaller chunked XVI type maps over what we have in XIV now. It's clear they know how to make a visually stunning game with great mid-sized areas. Give me more of that in XIV.

XVI gutted a lot of what we expect from FF games in general, and that alone scares me for both future FF games, and XIV. It did introduce some sick boss fights, so if we ever keep anything from CBU:III I want it to be some form of boss DDR combat.

[Shougun]

It's weird to say, but I would almost prefer the smaller chunked XVI type maps over what we have in XIV now. It's clear they know how to make a visually stunning game with great mid-sized areas. Give me more of that in XIV.

XVI gutted a lot of what we expect from FF games in general, and that alone scares me for both future FF games, and XIV. It did introduce some sick boss fights, so if we ever keep anything from CBU:III I want it to be some form of boss DDR combat.

I just want to toss out a game like Ghost of Tsushima where exploration in an open space was done very well. Given all the sounds, visuals, and mechanics going on.. exploration was so seamless it disturbed me that it was one of the first times I felt it to that tier. Like, sure I play GoW and I know it's a good game with a lot of polish, but playing GoT was like "this exploration is good enough it bothers me". I think in part it helped there was so many things of value not of check boxes. Say ubisoft is the king of checkboxes. Plz staph that. FFXVI hardly had 'valuable' exploration or 'useless value' exploration, thankfully they designed their game knowing that wasn't something they were selling lol (the maps are simple and nothing is really hidden), it would have been nice though, still, if they could refine that.

Even IF they were going to keep really linear maps* I would hope they can improve their side rewards, like side quests and reducing the number of items on the map (but making them more valuable to offset that). The quests that did things like give you more potions, or stronger potions, was nice and I wish they can think of more "oh, cool!" rewards (something GoT did well, as they were usually glamour or actual things you'd be using for important value that was pretty obvious- unlike say FFXVI which is like "we gave you crafting material!! you wont know it but it will be helpful / IF / you decide to go new game +).

*(that are not really 'clever', that doesn't mean 'bad', just.. say a GoW linear map unfurls itself in puzzles, /fun/ backtracks, and overlaying, vs like a corridor you run down that is very pretty with some fights in it.. like we talked about in some DMC games)


Ultimately I wouldn't agree that I want zones like FFXVI if we are talking gameplay, because I didn't particularly think they were very interesting in terms of gameplay level design, but if you meant visually then yeah well I think the game is very pretty and that includes how they showed the world. World is purty, the level design allows the world to look purty, which is a good thing that doesn't just 'happen', buuuuuuuuuuuut the reward structures and interactions mechanically, gameplay wise, were lacking (imo). Which ranges from rewards, to just how you have to navigate the space mentally (as a puzzle), to the sheer movement itself (like a few times I was looking at a 2 ft barrier that made me go 100 ft in another direction cause my chocobo and bro-man couldn't jump, or swim, it).

I also think FFXIV could use improved exploration mechanics too though lol (and to your point FFXIV's dungeons are very pretty and are more similar to FFXVI's design style, they clearly know how to make a corridor exceptionally good looking). I have made posts on exploration ideas a few times.. and I have a promise to someone I need to fulfil to make a post on it.. Just got back into the states though (don't really like saying "I don't like something" without saying what I think would be examples of it doing better- lazily / real quick I'd mention GW2 but I'd hope to make a better post than that).

[Nav_Fae]

I actually had the opposite opinion. I thought CBU3 was better at making MMOs than single player games. Not saying FFXIV is great, but between the two I would rather play FFXIV than FFXVI. Considering 16 has a lot of elements from FFXIV, it reinforced my opinion that it doesn't work for a single player game. Linear dungeons was one thing for an MMO, but for a single player too? That draws a line for me.

[R041]

I actually had the opposite opinion. I thought CBU3 was better at making MMOs than single player games. Not saying FFXIV is great, but between the two I would rather play FFXIV than FFXVI. Considering 16 has a lot of elements from FFXIV, it reinforced my opinion that it doesn't work for a single player game. Linear dungeons was one thing for an MMO, but for a single player too? That draws a line for me.

I think the problem is they have a weird mix of both? They have a lot of archaic MMO systems in both games, and they water them down so you only really get the boring bits of them and use them for 'storytelling'. But it's also clear that they want to focus on single-player storytelling and spectacle in general.

They often do away with gameplay to make sure you can enjoy the stories they tell. But this obviously conflicts with the fact that they're.. A game.

[Ath192]

I think the problem is they have a weird mix of both? They have a lot of archaic MMO systems in both games, and they water them down so you only really get the boring bits of them and use them for 'storytelling'. But it's also clear that they want to focus on single-player storytelling and spectacle in general.

They often do away with gameplay to make sure you can enjoy the stories they tell. But this obviously conflicts with the fact that they're.. A game.

This is a very accurate take on the subject TBH.

[Ath192]

I actually had the opposite opinion. I thought CBU3 was better at making MMOs than single player games. Not saying FFXIV is great, but between the two I would rather play FFXIV than FFXVI. Considering 16 has a lot of elements from FFXIV, it reinforced my opinion that it doesn't work for a single player game. Linear dungeons was one thing for an MMO, but for a single player too? That draws a line for me.

Interesting xD. Yeah I can see where you are coming from, since my focus was on what's happening next on the story I never really paid attention to the linear surroundings as much as I do when I play an MMO. I feel FFXVI could have easily been a 10/10 game if they adopted an open world design, Witcher 3 levels of side quests and world depth and a decent gearing/attribute system instead of full on auto pilot. Really those were the elements that I missed the most. The rest was great to me.

I can only imagine they didn't do that because of the testing and Q&A + balancing work it would entail, which I don't blame them but.... You're not going to get 10/10 if you are not going to go the extra mile.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I actually had the opposite opinion. I thought CBU3 was better at making MMOs than single player games. Not saying FFXIV is great, but between the two I would rather play FFXIV than FFXVI. Considering 16 has a lot of elements from FFXIV, it reinforced my opinion that it doesn't work for a single player game. Linear dungeons was one thing for an MMO, but for a single player too? That draws a line for me.

IMO FF16 has given me the opinion that CBU3 is better suited to making games that aren't RPGs as both this title and 16 are missing nearly everything expected of a title in the RPG genre. At the same time it could also mean that CBU3 isn't making the games they want to and instead are making the games that financial investors that have never played a game in their life say will make the most immediate profit.

[Jeeqbit]

IMO FF16 has given me the opinion that CBU3 is better suited to making games that aren't RPGs as both this title and 16 are missing nearly everything expected of a title in the RPG genre. At the same time it could also mean that CBU3 isn't making the games they want to and instead are making the games that financial investors that have never played a game in their life say will make the most immediate profit.

I think they are just using their experience of what people complain about. For example, people complained about having to travel everywhere on foot in FFXIV 1.0, so all the way in XVI they seem to have kept this lesson in their hearts and allowed you to teleport everywhere, taking away from the standard RPG experience of having to journey around on foot.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I think they are just using their experience of what people complain about. For example, people complained about having to travel everywhere on foot in FFXIV 1.0, so all the way in XVI they seem to have kept this lesson in their hearts and allowed you to teleport everywhere, taking away from the standard RPG experience of having to journey around on foot.

Abundance of fast travel points IMO is one of those things claimed to be a QoL improvement that really was just an appeasement for lazy gamers that chose to spend more time whining about it than just playing the actual game. It also essentially invalidates the effort in crafting the world since they're also making it so people don't see 90% of it because they're just bamf'ing all over the place like they're Nightcrawler. Having randomly interactable NPCs has also become pointless because they auto mark every quest NPC on the map for you even if you haven't gotten to that area to reveal the map yet and then auto mark every quest destination for you removing any need to actually pay attention to quest dialogue or details.

However it goes far beyond that to large amounts of literal game mechanics being removed like element factors, physical vs magical resistance, status effects, buffs/debuffs, equipment diversity and options, etc... For FF14 it's basically devolved to make numbers bigger while playing DDR with your fingers and pressing skill keys in a specific order. For FF16 it's essentially timing dodge key presses while hitting attack buttons when not dodging. What abilities you use don't matter mechanically because everything has the same effect on anything so it just boils down to which ones you like using.