Genuine Question Here

[GTK0HLK]

Are they wrong though..,
at the end of it all, if people don't want to be honest, despite who ever brought the thread, the original question, or continued the topic in a rough way..,?

if we aren't going to partake as we all would like it to be. then why are we here.

while true what some have said, it also proves them right. (like when someone phrases things wrong and gets many reactions, but those reactions ended up showing a sliver of truth in what they said.)

Personally, I hope I have been generally neutral, without betraying what I believe in/is best. (Which over all includes what most want.)

it was honestly temporarily disappointing when the True Trolls Resurrected Threads, made clear bait threads pretending to be TFreak level of logic, OR its Antithesis actually drew responses from some users who ought to know better. but it is how it is, sometimes it's nice to pretend or actually be Honest and Respond, despite their intent to be derailing or bait.

[Turning their Harmful actions, into informative ones against their desires and I'll intent, in order to inform those who aren't as informed.]

But that's just me.

TLDR:
The Forum can do so much better, but it honestly could improve enough if we try to be honest when can. (Besides, no one likes to be a Hypocrit that inadvertently proved themselves both wrong and right.)
and ignore the generally obvious trolls(the True ones) and dismantle the disinformation they spread.

And not lose sight of the conversation when we are discussing things of some worth.

[Nav_Fae]

I can't say I've followed the things OP has posted very closely but I'm starting to pick up an impression that people seem to have a grudge against them for some reason.

[AwesomeJr44]

I can't say I've followed the things OP has posted very closely but I'm starting to pick up an impression that people seem to have a grudge against them for some reason.

I can only speak for myself, but it's not really a grudge or anything for me at least. I just know that Ikara's track record isn't exactly spotless and thus when I see a post like this, it causes me to raise an eyebrow, especially when considering her later responses in the thread. I'm not sure if I agree with Mages' eagerness to wield the TOS as a weapon, but there are certainly red flags in the OP of this thread that suggest that the intentions and premise weren't genuine.

[NekoMataMata]

I can't say I've followed the things OP has posted very closely but I'm starting to pick up an impression that people seem to have a grudge against them for some reason.

Pretty sure I vaguely remember disagreeing with OP in the past over something but I have no grudge against them. The people here can be so petty.

Honestly I'm still leaning towards more being in favor of just outright shutting down the forums, even if it's just temporarily. Maybe in a few months give it another try with a bit of moderation and see if people at willing to behave a bit more.

[Kes13a]

Pretty sure I vaguely remember disagreeing with OP in the past over something but I have no grudge against them. The people here can be so petty.

Honestly I'm still leaning towards more being in favor of just outright shutting down the forums, even if it's just temporarily. Maybe in a few months give it another try with a bit of moderation and see if people at willing to behave a bit more.

I disagree with a lot of things, even you often. but since everyone is different, I see that as normal. world would be pretty dull if we were all exactly the same (something the devs should remember about jobs but thats another thread)

they do not need to shut down the entire forum, but they do need to get rid of general, and firmly moderate whatever is left. general is no longer useful for any kind of reasonable discussion either praising or complaining about the game. when you have one user with an army and multiple personalities, necroing threads and posting a variety of topics designed for only drama... the general forum should be shut down, it serves no game purpose and is more likely to turn people off from playing.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

they do not need to shut down the entire forum, but they do need to get rid of general, and firmly moderate whatever is left. general is no longer useful for any kind of reasonable discussion either praising or complaining about the game.
the general forum should be shut down, it serves no game purpose.

110% Agree here.
As many people have loved to say....The Forums are a Place to Leave Feedback...which yes, of course, it is.
But its also odd that it feels like its being put into "General" instead of a More Appropriate Place where eyes for Feedback should go. General does not seem like the correct place to leave feedback for things such as Game Balance, addressing Bugs and Issues like the Famous Login Problems during Endwalker.

Maybe Im wrong and General is fine, or even the Appropriate place. But then with the lack of Moderation and dozens of threads, legit feedback gets lost in the Noise: trolling, in-fighting and stuff like that. And the Mods hardly ever come in to shut it down, so it becomes a terrible place to bring attention to issues in the game, or even just discussion in general.
Be gone with General, so people can actually leave feedback in Feedback Channels with Appropriate Feedback Threads.

Or for the love Jebus, get some real Moderation in here.
Maybe General would be completely fine, if rules were enforced with a Mod Presence.

[Iscah]

Or for the love Jebus, get some real Moderation in here.
Maybe General would be completely fine, if rules were enforced with a Mod Presence.

Real moderators who actually patrol the forum would also ideally be sorting threads into appropriate sub forums, and merging multiple threads on a topic. It could be phenomenally more organised than it currently is.

Starting official threads on subjects (particularly new things that have just been announced) would go a long way to setting a neutral tone for discussions instead of leaving it for the first – almost always negative – poster to come along with a personal opinion to air. Even if the overall mood on a subject is positive, it's the one negative who sets the tone and has their thread-title rant constantly bobbed back up.

[Aravell]

Or for the love Jebus, get some real Moderation in here.
Maybe General would be completely fine, if rules were enforced with a Mod Presence.

There was actually heavy moderation back during the HW/SB era. But then back then there were people crying about unjust bans. I don't think I've personally seen any unjust bans back then, only heavy-handed ones. Like people who are generally nice and well-liked got a permanent ban on their first offence. They could probably stand to strike a balance between heavy-handed moderation and almost none at all tbh.

[AwesomeJr44]

they do not need to shut down the entire forum, but they do need to get rid of general, and firmly moderate whatever is left. general is no longer useful for any kind of reasonable discussion either praising or complaining about the game. when you have one user with an army and multiple personalities, necroing threads and posting a variety of topics designed for only drama... the general forum should be shut down, it serves no game purpose and is more likely to turn people off from playing.

If moderation was anywhere in the realm of existent, there would be no reason to delete General Discussion. The problem is the lack of moderation, not General itself.

There were also similar problems (similar as in a lack of moderation, not the exact problems General has right now) in Lore when I used to frequent that subforum so I'd presume that simply deleting General wouldn't solve the issue anyways. More moderation would be required either way.

[NekoMataMata]

I disagree with a lot of things, even you often. but since everyone is different, I see that as normal. world would be pretty dull if we were all exactly the same (something the devs should remember about jobs but thats another thread)

they do not need to shut down the entire forum, but they do need to get rid of general, and firmly moderate whatever is left. general is no longer useful for any kind of reasonable discussion either praising or complaining about the game. when you have one user with an army and multiple personalities, necroing threads and posting a variety of topics designed for only drama... the general forum should be shut down, it serves no game purpose and is more likely to turn people off from playing.

Moderation is what's needed really and I don't think we're going to receive enough of it.

It's not really just the alts at this point. A lot of people take the disagreements so personally that they've taken to biased self moderation. Why even have the forums at all if someone is just going to create an excuse for their disagreements to discredit the other person and use adblock to hide their existence? Why bother sharing the same space at all at that point?

I'm not looking for people to magically change and agree with each other. I'm mostly just looking for people to calm down with the alts, and to be a tiny bit more accepting of the fact that other people with different opinions exist. Even some of the other people in this thread that agree that moderation should be applied seem to have some biases that suggest that the moderation be applied in specific areas or to specific groups of people.

Remove the forums for a while and then we'll come back to them later to see if people are willing to be a bit open minded. If they aren't, then the forums can stay gone. We can also add more moderation afterwards but I really feel that in general we need a bit of an attitude change otherwise, assuming more moderation is applied a lot of people are likely to be resentful of it, especially if moderation is actually applied fairly.