New Job Role - Magical Melee DPS?

[Kaliesto]

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.


maybe this a weird take?

[Jonnycbad]

Ninja is a magical melee DPS

/thread



Also, we have more than enough Sword jobs.

[Ranaku]

Ninja is a magical melee DPS

/thread



Also, we have more than enough Sword jobs.

That is wrong. Like totally wrong. As wrong as you can be.

What OP is asking for is a pure magic melee job. Not a hybrid job. Like machinist is a ranged job but uses only physical attacks and blackmage is also a ranged job and uses only magical attacks.

So it wouldn't be too far fetched to have a melee job that only uses magical attacks, which doesn't mean that it has to be casting. Just the aesthetics and damage type.

That said i am all for it, it's something that would be new and is still missing. Really neat idea!

[TheDecay]

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.


maybe this a weird take?

No, not a weird take.

However, this is very funny because there's no way CBU3 can balance this. They'll simply release a safe, homogenized DPS job.

[Nitelancer]

But they would need to have a different weapon from existing jobs. What would it be?

[Shurrikhan]

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.

If the only thing that is changing is that their damage gets a purple staff icon to its left instead of a blue sword... you won't have 'split' anything.

Moreover, melee itself is already split three ways between Maiming, Striking, and Scouting, and they can't even figure out what they want from those divisions (except, apparently, to uniquely waste Melees' time and gearing opportunities by granting them 33-67% the job choices per Armor class of what non-Melee DPS have access to).

Or, to put it another way... you could have a "Magical Melee," but in effect it'll... just be another melee.

If it were to lack cast times, it'd feel even less "magMelee" (caster-like) than Samurai does. Or, give it substantial casts and cast times enough to be distinct from Samurai, and you'll then have to reconcile that with the uptime and movement requirements of being melee.

Either way, at the end of the day, you're only going to get a decent job out of its particular theme excusing fun gameplay and an attractive aesthetic -- there's no uniquely absent typal niche dying to be filled here, since players' magic damage and physical damage are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

[Ranaku]

If the only thing that is changing is that their damage gets a purple staff icon to its left instead of a blue sword... you won't have 'split' anything.

Moreover, melee itself is already split three ways between Maiming, Striking, and Scouting, and they can't even figure out what they want from those divisions (except, apparently, to uniquely waste Melees' time and gearing opportunities by granting them 33-67% the job choices per Armor class of what non-Melee DPS have access to).

Or, to put it another way... you could have a "Magical Melee," but in effect it'll... just be another melee.

If it were to lack cast times, it'd feel even less "magMelee" (caster-like) than Samurai does. Or, give it substantial casts and cast times enough to be distinct from Samurai, and you'll then have to reconcile that with the uptime and movement requirements of being melee.

Either way, at the end of the day, you're only going to get a decent job out of its particular theme excusing fun gameplay and an attractive aesthetic -- there's no uniquely absent typal niche dying to be filled here, since players' magic damage and physical damage are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

Maybe make the magic melee then into a mostly caster, like for example samurai already has to cast his finishers. That would be a difference. Or SE could finally try again to make a dot heavy job.

But it is a better idea than just sticking with the old system anyways, or not? I mean if we get next expansion anyways again one or two jobs in the same old style they can at least give them a bit of a different taste even if it's just a purple icon instead of a blue one.

Still better than nothing. Expectations are already low, i get that. We don't have to put them rock bottom tho.

[Shurrikhan]

But it is a better idea than just sticking with the old system anyways, or not? I mean if we get next expansion anyways again one or two jobs in the same old style they can at least give them a bit of a different taste even if it's just a purple icon instead of a blue one.

Still better than nothing. Expectations are already low, i get that. We don't have to put them rock bottom tho.

This has nothing to do with lowering expectations. Trying to excuse a job design off a half-hearted, irrelevant distinction like whether the damage is written in blue or purple would be a far lower expectation still.

Melee dps dealing predominantly physical damage is not a "style" of gameplay. It's a random on-paper detail that at best can be fit to the applying skills' animations. At worst, it doesn't, and sends some head-canoner into a deranged spiral... still none of which would have any impact on how the game plays. The distinction is that irrelevant.

And, sure, you CAN give a new job the mobility limitations of BLM despite also giving it the range limitations of a melee. But... why? The illogic / thematic dissonance of it would be punching you in the face as often as every enemy in PvP. As such, a more mild approach is probably the more appropriate --something more in the form of your mail-armored "Battle Mage"-- and we've already had up to 4-second-long casts (or, continuous lockouts from movement) on a melee in the form of old TCJ, so... that's going to be particularly novel on the basis of type.

Instead, like any other job, it's just going to have to be mechanically and aesthetically interesting, regardless. The fact that it has a bit more magic isn't, itself, going to be a significant advantage.

[Ranaku]

snip

It's kinda hilarious how you argue about something that has no real impact anyways. Like what would be the big problem behind it? Would it destroy your immersion when you see all of the sudden a purple icon instead of a blue one?

Or to make it easier to understand for you, what would be the big difference to you personally? Does it matter to you if you get another melee job which well is the same as all the other melee jobs or a melee job which is the same just with a different flavor.

In the end we will get a new job, this job will have to fulfill the jobs description. Tank, DD, Healer. This will always stay the same. So please tell me where exactly the problem for you is when people, just imagine, a different look for a job? Not mechanics, that is SE job. They will have to create that we have no influence in their job designs. But what exactly and specifically is your problem with people wishing for a specific look in a new job?

I kinda get some "i am against this to be against this!!!" vibe. Like you argue over something what was never even the topic of the thread.

[Shurrikhan]

Or to make it easier to understand for you, what would be the big difference to you personally? Does it matter to you if you get another melee job which well is the same as all the other melee jobs or a melee job which is the same just with a different flavor.

No, I'm just tired of seeing threads that amount to "If only we had a job that did this {1 irrelevant gimmick}, it'd be super cool and unique!"

a different look for a job

See the examples given in OP? Those aren't different, in appearance or otherwise. That's my point. Their merely having magic... doesn't make an interesting job. Though... they also, well, don't, for those particular examples. Or, less than any existing melee except for Warrior.

A Mystic Knight has historically had, on average, a far lesser portion of magic damage than an XIV DRK. It is also a theme that was already scavenged into XIV's DRK.

A Nightblade is a Dragoon but with a sword, with some of its Jump capacity traded out for break (Armor, Weapon, Helm, etc.) skills. It's also entirely physical (outside of perhaps "Rend Magic" and "Rend MP", which are both just... physical slashes, by appearance.)

Sword Saint is three jobs in one, stealing Dark Knight, Holy Knight, and Divine Knight's skills. But, having thus muddled its identity... it's still just... a generic greatsword user. Heck, it has far fewer casts than Paladin and far less magic use than XIV DRK.

Its longest list of skills: Stasis Sword (just deals Physical Damage), Split Punch (Physical Damage + Doom), Northswain's Strike (Physical Damage), Lightning Stab (Physical Damage + Silences), Divine Ruination (Confuse + damage based on Physical Attack), Crush Armor (Breaks Armor + damage based on Physical Attack), Crush Helm (basically same), Crush Weapon (Disarm + Physical Damage), Duskblade (Syphon Strike), Shadowblade (Souleater).

Which is why I return to that feeling of... "Okay... I'm still waiting for the actual idea. Because this gives us as little to work with as 'the job's name should start with B', because we don't have any that start of those. Wouldn't that be cool, guys?"

As you said, it's never going to be a sub-role, so... where's the actual difference? We'd need more to work with.

And again... All melee except for Warrior already visually use magic. Even without its Ninjutsu, NIN for instance is Wind and Shadow; MNK is Fire (see TFC), Earth (see Howling Fist), and Wind (Tornado Kick); and SAM is ice-blasting people with Yukikaze between its Moon and Wind attacks and whatever the heck Cherry Blossoms Bombs are supposed to be (see also DRG); etc., etc. With those visuals already there, and the coding identical, the actual work still fully remains to be done.

You've seen my two cents. I still have yet to see yours.