New Job Role - Magical Melee DPS?

[Kaliesto]

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.


maybe this a weird take?

[Jonnycbad]

Ninja is a magical melee DPS

/thread



Also, we have more than enough Sword jobs.

[TheDecay]

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.


maybe this a weird take?

No, not a weird take.

However, this is very funny because there's no way CBU3 can balance this. They'll simply release a safe, homogenized DPS job.

[Ranaku]

Ninja is a magical melee DPS

/thread



Also, we have more than enough Sword jobs.

That is wrong. Like totally wrong. As wrong as you can be.

What OP is asking for is a pure magic melee job. Not a hybrid job. Like machinist is a ranged job but uses only physical attacks and blackmage is also a ranged job and uses only magical attacks.

So it wouldn't be too far fetched to have a melee job that only uses magical attacks, which doesn't mean that it has to be casting. Just the aesthetics and damage type.

That said i am all for it, it's something that would be new and is still missing. Really neat idea!

[Nitelancer]

But they would need to have a different weapon from existing jobs. What would it be?

[Shurrikhan]

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.

If the only thing that is changing is that their damage gets a purple staff icon to its left instead of a blue sword... you won't have 'split' anything.

Moreover, melee itself is already split three ways between Maiming, Striking, and Scouting, and they can't even figure out what they want from those divisions (except, apparently, to uniquely waste Melees' time and gearing opportunities by granting them 33-67% the job choices per Armor class of what non-Melee DPS have access to).

Or, to put it another way... you could have a "Magical Melee," but in effect it'll... just be another melee.

If it were to lack cast times, it'd feel even less "magMelee" (caster-like) than Samurai does. Or, give it substantial casts and cast times enough to be distinct from Samurai, and you'll then have to reconcile that with the uptime and movement requirements of being melee.

Either way, at the end of the day, you're only going to get a decent job out of its particular theme excusing fun gameplay and an attractive aesthetic -- there's no uniquely absent typal niche dying to be filled here, since players' magic damage and physical damage are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

[Ranaku]

If the only thing that is changing is that their damage gets a purple staff icon to its left instead of a blue sword... you won't have 'split' anything.

Moreover, melee itself is already split three ways between Maiming, Striking, and Scouting, and they can't even figure out what they want from those divisions (except, apparently, to uniquely waste Melees' time and gearing opportunities by granting them 33-67% the job choices per Armor class of what non-Melee DPS have access to).

Or, to put it another way... you could have a "Magical Melee," but in effect it'll... just be another melee.

If it were to lack cast times, it'd feel even less "magMelee" (caster-like) than Samurai does. Or, give it substantial casts and cast times enough to be distinct from Samurai, and you'll then have to reconcile that with the uptime and movement requirements of being melee.

Either way, at the end of the day, you're only going to get a decent job out of its particular theme excusing fun gameplay and an attractive aesthetic -- there's no uniquely absent typal niche dying to be filled here, since players' magic damage and physical damage are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

Maybe make the magic melee then into a mostly caster, like for example samurai already has to cast his finishers. That would be a difference. Or SE could finally try again to make a dot heavy job.

But it is a better idea than just sticking with the old system anyways, or not? I mean if we get next expansion anyways again one or two jobs in the same old style they can at least give them a bit of a different taste even if it's just a purple icon instead of a blue one.

Still better than nothing. Expectations are already low, i get that. We don't have to put them rock bottom tho.

[Shurrikhan]

But it is a better idea than just sticking with the old system anyways, or not? I mean if we get next expansion anyways again one or two jobs in the same old style they can at least give them a bit of a different taste even if it's just a purple icon instead of a blue one.

Still better than nothing. Expectations are already low, i get that. We don't have to put them rock bottom tho.

This has nothing to do with lowering expectations. Trying to excuse a job design off a half-hearted, irrelevant distinction like whether the damage is written in blue or purple would be a far lower expectation still.

Melee dps dealing predominantly physical damage is not a "style" of gameplay. It's a random on-paper detail that at best can be fit to the applying skills' animations. At worst, it doesn't, and sends some head-canoner into a deranged spiral... still none of which would have any impact on how the game plays. The distinction is that irrelevant.

And, sure, you CAN give a new job the mobility limitations of BLM despite also giving it the range limitations of a melee. But... why? The illogic / thematic dissonance of it would be punching you in the face as often as every enemy in PvP. As such, a more mild approach is probably the more appropriate --something more in the form of your mail-armored "Battle Mage"-- and we've already had up to 4-second-long casts (or, continuous lockouts from movement) on a melee in the form of old TCJ, so... that's going to be particularly novel on the basis of type.

Instead, like any other job, it's just going to have to be mechanically and aesthetically interesting, regardless. The fact that it has a bit more magic isn't, itself, going to be a significant advantage.

[Ranaku]

snip

It's kinda hilarious how you argue about something that has no real impact anyways. Like what would be the big problem behind it? Would it destroy your immersion when you see all of the sudden a purple icon instead of a blue one?

Or to make it easier to understand for you, what would be the big difference to you personally? Does it matter to you if you get another melee job which well is the same as all the other melee jobs or a melee job which is the same just with a different flavor.

In the end we will get a new job, this job will have to fulfill the jobs description. Tank, DD, Healer. This will always stay the same. So please tell me where exactly the problem for you is when people, just imagine, a different look for a job? Not mechanics, that is SE job. They will have to create that we have no influence in their job designs. But what exactly and specifically is your problem with people wishing for a specific look in a new job?

I kinda get some "i am against this to be against this!!!" vibe. Like you argue over something what was never even the topic of the thread.

[Shurrikhan]

On a more constructive note... Here are some random job ideas that would likely happen to have more casts than existing melee:

Adept (Scouting or Striking) - Wielding a long, lean martial staff, the Adept is a versatile, highly agile, and variably supportive front-line fighter. Its spells cast unlock and/or augment its available weaponskills and abilities, with its Mana spent leaving a portion resonating within them of that element (colored on the MP bar). The Adept has, directly or indirectly, access to all six elements, with certain combinations of elements able to source or augment others (Fire on a central target spreading Wind damage outward, etc.) and some skills able to combine one element's means of conveyance (e.g., an Earthen Spike) with another's effect (Lightning's Polarity, for instance, to form a Galvanic Spike). Operating on up to 20% increased Attack Speed depending on use of Wind (and different but similarly direct means of APM increase within Water and Lightning), the Adept is not likely to be one of the easier jobs, be that in terms of reflexes or decision-making.

Wildblood (Scouting or Casting) - Though technically wielding a regalia --subsumed (rather painfully) into the dominant hand and reshaping its arm-- the primary weapon of the Wildblood is claws and... blood. As Hemomancers, the Wildblood are a particularly nasty breed of versatile saboteur, capable of stealing away attributes from enemies for their own use, and increasingly wielding their own and their enemies stolen lifeforce against their foes. They are particularly hardy through their ability to trade blood for mana and vice versa, though damage can in turn suppress their offensive capability. Able to damn near tank when stealing life-force from a sufficient number of mobs, and to heal the majority of the party's damage intake when commanding the enemy's attention, the Wildblood's role in practice can be a bit... flexible, though its highest contribution to raid throughput usually follows from an offensive role with timely suppression.

Warden (Maiming or Striking) - Sort of a cross between a Paladin and an acme-Witcher, the Wardens carrying long maces (or, long macil -- straight, in this case two-handed clubs with up to a 1/3rd meter section of spiked steel plating over the end) and use a spend a fair portion of their time in casting Holy, Soul, and Balance magics, especially self-buffs (each formed from and named after a Sigil). Charged with both keeping monsters out of villages, and the combating of a plague within their cities that would leave their quickly aggressive victims particularly hardy against all but blunt weapons and Holy and Soul magics, Wardens are simultaneously heavy hitters and methodical coordinators that are individually sturdy and collectively even sturdier. A portion of their casts can act as shields, reducing incoming damage by a flat amount, such that these casts aren't inherently a weakness. The Warden's self-buffs can be used on others for external utility, though such usually lacks synergy compared to self-casting, as each recipient may only carry one Sigil from each benefactor but Wardens are free to cast as many Sigils on themselves as they are able to balance (between exploiting them while active and granting further synergies from carrying multiple at a time). (Because this restriction does not apply to Wardens, beware of All-Warden strike gangs in Frontlines.)

Úlfheðinn (Striking or Scouting) - Dual-axe wielding warrior-shamans that steal away your Beastmaster from the horrors of being reduced to a limited job. Switching between fast and brutal attackers and more cunning ones, they rotate between the imbued or invoked (summoned) spirit of the Wolf (allows, among other things, for dash-strikes and freer and longer combos), Bear (allows for further defensives and strong gauge spenders), or Hawk (allows for weapon-throwing and rapid mobility). While they can cast very little, optimal play tends to weave in a few rituals to capitalize on high-damage periods or replenish MP again for another burst. These rituals may restrict movement to a small area (as per Ley Lines) or directly (as per any other normal cast).

Shifter (Scouting) - So... distinctly not a Morpher, if that's what you were expecting. No, the Shifter, is a user of sentient scarves/cloaks (called their "Shroud") -- almost akin to a Dancer in aesthetic, or something out of Journey -- with a very unique means of 'casting'. If it were said to have any (meta-)elements, they would be of Weave, Sand, and maybe Skies. In role, they are extremely flexible, and tend to dabble in both healing and tanking in premade light-party or 1|6|1 content. (In an ideal world, they could outright sign up for any role for most content.) Shifters are technically melee, but in a sense occasionally like that of a puppeteer: The Shifter actually carries multiple player positions that it can use to its advantage (though for which it is never penalized, such as by having a higher chance of being hit by AoEs) --the original player position, the midpoint of the Shroud, and the edge of the Shroud-- and may at times 'snap' or "Shift" to a safe space among them. Thus a Shifter may at times act from up to 15 meters out, puppeteering from range without penalty to part of its kit, in order to simultaneously support allies elsewhere. This Shroud may be redoubled around the Shifter herself, granting aspects, settle around an ally to benefit and allow strikes around them, smother enemies, be positioned as per a pet, or move in the Shifter's place (the Shifter herself remaining stationary while her movement controls puppet the dash-strike-capable Shroud, with whom she can then swap places). The Shifter's CDs allows for the Shroud to be duplicated, too, creating positionable clones, or to slip into the Weave itself, targeting aspects of the chosen enemy and ally to sever (by attacking these aspects) or fortify.