Let's Design and Populate a "Living (World)" Zone for 7.0

[Shurrikhan]

I've placed this under "Exploratory Missions" simply because there's no section specifically for zone design, but this is actually intended for one or more hypothetical 7.0 leveling zones, if they were given the chance to be more than the usual transient/"throw-away" experience with not but a smattering of FATEs and Hunts.

I'll be reserving a few spaces below to use as a sort of whiteboards/testing spaces of sorts, starting from a basic premise for the zone, to which anyone can feel free to chip in. Depending on how many contributions those use, I may not directly quote everyone, but there will be at least a post number for citation purposes for the ideas applied to those testing spaces. Feel free to comment, once the two samples get off the ground, with "For [A]" or "For [B]", etc.



For now, let's start this off with a few questions to both get things moving and set up some manner of organization:

1: Basic Qualities (Aesthetic / Mood)

What kind of zone would you most like to see in 7.0? What would it look and feel like?
(Feel free to contextualize this with your head canon for where we might be going in 7.x.)

2: Novel Zone Mechanics / Activities

What are some new mechanics or activities you'd like to see in 7.0?
(Feel free to situate these within the zone you'd like to see. Feel free to go as specific or 'crazy' with these as you like.)

3: Open World Design Philosophy

If it were possible, how long-lasting, varied, integral, etc., should the "open world" be within the game, in your opinion?
What are some things you especially want to see from it? What are some things that may be occasionally advocated for that you wouldn't find satisfying or would rather avoid?
(Feel free to give examples from other games, but try not to limit yourself to just examples of what is; give some insight into what, to your mind, ideally could be.)

[Shurrikhan]

Reserved (Shared Workshop - Zone A)

[Shurrikhan]

Reserved (Shared Workshop - Zone B)

[Shurrikhan]

Reserved (Miscellaneous / Short-list of Design Philosophy Discussions)

[DixieBellOCE]

Exploratory Missions for everyone.

Do you want to go hunt and harvest corpses for materials or cut down tree's and mine rocks?

An area designed for everyone, with gear and weapons specifically designed for progression.

It could be as simple as 'Oh a voidgate opened in xxxxxxxxxx location' and you need to go in, gather materials and try to push into the void as far as possible in a time limit, with equipment and armor designed to exponentially grow alongside your progression, so by the end of it you are incredibly strong in whatever field you choose to play (Combat, crafting, gathering).

How fun would it be to have set bonus' on Exploratory armor sets? Things as simple as 'X skill now cleaves multiple enemies' or 'using X skill empowers your next # skills to deal X bonus damage'.
It wouldn't affect the main game, but could be some extremely fun side content like Eureka's elemental armor and raids.

[Shiroe]

if they make a new Eureka / Boja for 7.X, which I really hope they do (sorely missed in EW)

A)
hope they use Eureka for the Map design.., in a sense of "it's dangerous & exciting area to explore".., with things like sleeping dragons that can one-shot you, complex map areas etc.., so it gives off this almost "dark souls / Eldenring" feeling of danger (atleast until your level capped)

B) and just make great fates (Eureka), raids (Boja) & story (Boja) again

aka use the best of both worlds, from Eureka and Boja..
...

8.0, please a cross-over with Dark Souls or Eldenring (!), for next Eureka/Boja!.. SE needs to push more into FF14, with all money its making

Edit: ahh.., kind of just jumped in here.., didn't realise the thread was ment more for a Sanctuary-like content (and not Eureka/Boja)

[Shurrikhan]

ahh.., kind of just jumped in here.., didn't realise the thread was ment more for a Sanctuary-like content (and not Eureka/Boja)

It's actually just meant for regular zones (such that they feel like more than a place you MSQ through, maybe FATE lv3 on, and then forget forever), but feel free to post ideas on any of the three (EMs, Sanctuary-like stuff, or regular zones).

[Shougun]

1: Basic Qualities (Aesthetic / Mood)
What kind of zone would you most like to see in 7.0? What would it look and feel like?
(Feel free to contextualize this with your head canon for where we might be going in 7.x.)

I like the zones we've seen so far, though I want to say I'd love to see the zone mood have implications. An in-game example was how weather changed for Odin, but I'm thinking more general and less super FATE. Like if it's night, like in FFXI, the mob make up could change. If it's foggy this might mean something for some monsters popping out at players.

Although to add an actual answer a subterranean magical unground space could be cool. Something like Sky from FFXI meets less undead WoW Undercity meets Laputa (Castle in the Sky). Ancient, yet magically advanced, or at least non-futuristic like visuals for any civilization like objects.

2: Novel Zone Mechanics / Activities
What are some new mechanics or activities you'd like to see in 7.0?
(Feel free to situate these within the zone you'd like to see. Feel free to go as specific or 'crazy' with these as you like.)

I would like to see things be more dynamic rather than so structured. A feeling I generally get with FFXIV is incredible organization and intentionality, but that it's to a point that a lot of things are actually marqueed. Like.. you see the borders of systems and if they touch you know it. While it may be a little hyperbolic its that each thing is clearly an object set next to another object and doesn't very often feel like a seamless system.

Giving a contemporary competitive example, WoW is coming out with Delves which yes you go through a fog wall but it's without loading screen. Something that I have a hard time imagining FFXIV even dreaming of accomplishing, just because everything is designed to be so separated. Of course there are some good things that have come out of this design style, so I'm not saying doom and gloom.. just that if there is anything I feel SE needs to work on in a general concept is making a seamless gameplay roleplay world space. Roleplay, enforced by gameplay, is a challenge to FFXIV I feel. (I notate gameplay as I feel FFXIV has a fantastic story, so if you just go by written words then FFXIV is fine-- its specifically how that gameplay supports a roleplay like environment.. not very well, comparatively, imo).

Besides lazily pointing out Delves, which you might argue are improved Variant dungeons with a better value proposition (Delves will provide end game gear and are designed to have some variations). Here are a few thoughts I'll try not to expand too much for sake of readability:

• Dynamic fire team parties, if you join a FATE you'll be put into a fire team. This won't kick you out of your queue'd content, you can have a party filled up with fire team members (if marked as a public party). Fire team members will be removed dynamically as well. Social will track the last few people you played with. Likely should be used for many other open world, group like content. Make it easy to shift into a public party if you're enjoying the team or a specific person on it (being in a party would cancel the DF queue though, I don't think you can get around that). Fire team can be turned off if you hate being with others.*
• Improved FATEs, please look at GW2 for great examples, besides different concepts (so they're not all 'kill x enemies' feeling) specifically greatly improve the scale ability of FATEs (a lot of FATEs are only possible after they fail a bunch, and then become a battle of watching their hp slowly widdle down while you are max hp, which is a bad dynamic scaling system).
• Golden Saucer can collect these activities for replay-ability, but fancy FATEs basically, like how WoW made plants vs zombies in a zone. Thinking of Mario Party or Uther Party (Wc3) or the actual 'activities' in GW2. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Activity (linked for example). To unlock you have to do it in the zone first (perhaps to a specific ranking as well, so it's like get bronze and then the saucer will hold the activity for convenience). Not a point of the thread but similar to deliveries and how they have a shifting "in-demand" it would be neat if the saucer had some in-demand games that had greatly boosted rewards (perhaps part of a new / revamped challenge log).
• Bigger S FATE events (GW2 has good examples with their major boss events that are on a schedule), multiple step, stage, multiple interactive opportunities (may look at Hamlet Defense in 1.0 as one potential example)
• A rank kindling of remains (a dynamic semi-instanced fight, on the field but portioned into your own space of that open world* think of sharding in WoW dynamically placed in an arena at location), FFX pyreflye / farplane sending, dynamic scaling of the A ranks. Perhaps the kindling material can be quantity limited like beast tribe or level tokens to ensure reward / quantity. Finding the monster alive will either give you an extra item roll (not exclusive, just extra) or alternatively you can just kill it and then kindle kill it lol. (S rank and FATE monsters still being for trains, FATE variants should also reward tomes)- Enhance the Hunt log UI that is dedicated from ARR era to now be a hunt log that tracks and further encourages hunts (like first time kill reward bonuses, which you've found / not, etc)**
• Chests may drop from FATEs, which may also create portals, will use fire teams (and of course parties) and will dynamically scale (in general make all treasure chest content scale akin to variants, if one person wants to go with one chest they should be able to- this is less reward effectective than going with a group.. you don't need any other dissuasion, imo)
• Novelty zone roleplay, if a zone has turbulent wind that impacts the mounts somehow (if you fly in the direction of the wind perhaps it's 100% bonus movement speed, 25% reduction if opposite direction). Big mushrooms cause you to bounce, etc. Make the world interactable...
• Zone level, rather than FATE level (introduced mechanic in shadowbringers), interacting with the zones increases the level of the zone, levels will introduce changes. Like when Eulmore area mentioned you were bringing peace to the area, nothing changed- would have been neat to see traveling merchants. Some quest specific unlocks based on the level too, like if you have a peaceful zone with rank X dwarves a special cave for your miner will be unlocked and if you have an island sanctuary you can use beast tokens to have a special node in your sanctuary instead (same node, can't duplicate the node reward but can make it convenient).
• Mega leve, a mad lib leve quest that takes many leve tokens, spans multiple objectives and gives a pretty good reward to the time (but the time will probably be about 30 minutes or so). 30 leves (or whatever mechanic that can ensure a high value cadence with high variability, content scales).
• Better 'shard' / instanced content seamless within non-instanced spaces. For example the delves coming in WoW, but also you have things like the farm in Mist of Pandaria that is in the 'open world', like if your island sanctuary was placed in an open zone (this would require major server architecture changes I assumes so unlikely, but again this to me shows one of the things that WoW / Blizzard actually does really really well and something I'm not sure FFXIV can do, although sharding at release for Blizzard didn't work very well.. lol). To be clear I'm not saying move the Islands, just that is an example.*
• Chocobo hot and cold (perhaps also wrapped up in archaeology DoL like system)
• Either general scaling in zones (like GW2 employs), so you can have your whole kit, and rewards roughly scaled too, or zone events that bring people to scaled zones on a cycle (which would do better to funnel people)- may consider looking at Diablo 4's Helltides and Blood Harvest / seasonal zone events
• On scaling and rewards, ... scaled rewards getting it's own bullet just to emphasize some system whether shifting (specific zones are focused, or in general like an ever present sync system that can be joined), if you have this cool hamlet defense event set up... would be a shame that it dies in value in two patches just cause of the linear treadmill
• Beast tribes that have demand like custom deliveries (there is a cycle of in demand items, so an NPC from many levels ago could have a worth doing delivery). Here it would just be making extra scaled rewards. (Less important but I thought it would be neat if beast tribes could help with old relics, like kobold could give you alexanderite maps with extra alexanderite rewards)
• Zone level, or gemstone, or beast tribe (or 'and') rewards that come back into island sanctuary somehow (not really open world related, I just like my Island and hope to see it continue to gain content lol)

• Greatly improved navigation mechanics, this isn't zone specific, but looking at GW2's mount system and WoW's dragonflight system (which will become the default movement system soon).. FFXIV's movement system is really bland (not meant as a pejorative but as in, it's the basics only- zero fluff). Now I made this suggestion prior to GW2 (and Dragonflight) so it's not because of those, but having tried them.. Yes- I am sure this is a huge boon to interacting with the world. What I suggested, prior to Dragonflight's solution, I think the old system can stay in case someone needs it though (in WoW's presentation they suggested accessibility as a reason you can switch between 'dragonflight' and the original method).
• Once movement is improved, more jump puzzles . (Add check points! lol)

Personally movement would be a major one lol. Making engaging the environment fun makes many areas feel different to navigate and can open up meaningful difference. Like trying to catch wind to make it to the next Island.

3: Open World Design Philosophy
If it were possible, how long-lasting, varied, integral, etc., should the "open world" be within the game, in your opinion?
What are some things you especially want to see from it? What are some things that may be occasionally advocated for that you wouldn't find satisfying or would rather avoid?
(Feel free to give examples from other games, but try not to limit yourself to just examples of what is; give some insight into what, to your mind, ideally could be.)

I think the open world should be a good point of roleplay value, and progression. Now you can join hunt trains, when active, to make good tomestone progress but that assumes you have a fast enough PC (or are not during a hot period) and that you only want to do hunt train lol.. Given all the rush and teleporting I'm not really sure I'd say that's the best example for open world content (but admitting it is there if you wanted it like that). Also while I think hunt trains are fine, I think their gameplay value is pretty meh. Mostly people running to a spot, tagging it, barely getting a combat rotation out, and going to the next one (besides S ranks, that's not the same as the A rank train experience). It would be cool to see systems that encourage you to spend more general time on the open map without feeling like you're wasting your time.

The nice part about open world content is that it can be both solo friendly and party friendly once a scale-able system has been devised and rewards are appropriately set. Like in GW2 the major events they've created are essentially always accomplishable yet are engaging enough you get to 'play' rather than train and tag (which is what I'd say an A rank generally feels like in FFXIV, again not S rank). I think having a dynamic party system could help with this too as your abilities and teamwork could improve, without having to ditch your queue if you had one, and potentially may turn a temp (fire team) party into a longer term one.

May make another thread for it, not sure, as it relates to topics raised here but more tangential is that a major point of desire that I feel FFXIV doesn't deliver on is that gameplay roleplay value. Both GW2 (in specifically 'gameplay' of role) and WoW (in both role and gameplay) do this much better (and WoW in the next expansion is improving on this further). Because of the expansion, and Metzen triggering nostalgia of when Warcraft / Blizzard could do no (few) wrongs lol, I recently tried WoW again. I definitely feel many core things of FFXIV are just better, and it's not doom and gloom for sure, yet as I was playing different races, classes, or spaces, I felt genuinely more like I was taking part in those things vs the more sanitized (?) well structured system FFXIV offers. Sanitized might not be the word.. maybe.. 'clean'? Less organic feeling, sometimes 'too smooth'. As a common feedback here jobs are feeling more and more similar, meanwhile as I tried different 'jobs' in WoW I was feeling even minor things as standout differences (both in combat and out of combat).

Like a Demon Hunter prior to even actually having core abilities, you could double jump, glide, and use magic sight to see enemies through walls. Right away I was feeling 'different'. Now balance is harder so I'm not saying one has to be more... imbalanced or have talent trees or whatever, but even the non-ultimate content impacting roleplay was just so substantial in WoW and is basically non-existent in FFXIV. As a lazy example, why can't dragoon hold space bar for a greater jump or something cool like that? It's so thematic and right there. I had a toy after going to the faire (in WoW) that allowed me to control a little tank like an RC car, it was just set up like you were using an RC and it had its cute gun and *you could even play against other players.. It almost seems unfathomable that FFXIV could have that level of roleplay at this point, it seems like while we have a large self guided roleplay community the game itself doesn't want to support it almost at all lol. There is talk of Beast master in FFXIV as a limited job but WoW dang near has a 'limited' job beastmaster simply as Hunter's side gig.

Seems to be a lot of fear to make organic connections that are not nearly perfectly symmetrical. What reads as negatively I want to say I still think FFXIV is pretty great game, just a major hole, imo, and one I was made more aware of recently since WoW (with their new expansion upcoming) is going to be taking some of the best systems in FFXIV and making them in WoW (soon you will essentially have 'jobs' in that game, as you will have Warbands which offer many similarities once added- a few cons if you want to change quickly, but also quite a few benefits too).