Bring Lyse back into the fold

[Lyth]

I think part of the difficulty with Lyse's character was that she stopped being Yda.

The Ultimate Fight FFXIV video that Square Enix released as a joke during one of the ARR live letters captures the fun of the original Scion group quite nicely. Yda occupied the space where Estinien is right now, as our punch first, ask questions later melee dps. And that served as a good counterpoint to an otherwise overly cerebral Scion group.

Lyse doesn't really have a connection with the Scions, outside of her sister's history. You could argue that, were Yda alive, her sister would be a side character in her story. If you really wanted to bring that dynamic back, then you'd need Yda, not Lyse. The place to look is Yda's implied offscreen/offpage death in Tales from the Twilight - Set with the Sun (as narrated by Fordola):

More and more soldiers were coming to join the fray. She even saw a hulking magitek monstrosity approaching, the grating screech of metal on metal adding to the clamor which now resounded around the ruins.

Fleet of foot as she was, Yda surely could have escaped alone. Yet there she stayed, fighting this impossible battle. She was going to die, and why? For the sake of one child? For her?

Why me?

If she went for help, they might make it in time. But who could she ask? Who would help an enemy of the Empire? No one she knew. She cursed her own uselessness.

Still, she kept moving. One step at a time, though her legs trembled to take them, and repeated Yda's final words to herself until they were a part of her. She would live.

If the Black Wolf came back from the destruction of Praetorium, then you pretty much have to see it to believe it. The question is, if the original Yda was captured and not killed, what could you do with that idea? More of the Resonant plotline with Fordola in Southern Ilsabard perhaps? Bring Yda back as an antagonist? Hard to say, really.

[Kesey]

I think part of the difficulty with Lyse's character was that she stopped being Yda.

But no one really knows Yda--at all. The Yda you know was Lyse the whole time.

And if you want to point to changes in personality, Lyse just stopped pretending to be Yda.

Yda is just the offscreen back story of Lyse (and somewhat Fordola).

I get the community had mixed reviews about the Lyse reveal, but frankly, none of you know Yda. Stop using Yda to diminish Lyse.

[SannaR]

To me there were signs of Lyse while she was pretending to be Yda. Even though Krile (I think?) jokes about Lyse getting her Archon mark in punching we can probably safely assume that was what Yda got her marks for as a thesis on the merit of pugilistic fighting techniques. Thus to me Yda at least knew how to write a good enough paper/report for Sharlyean scholars to turn their noses up on. Where to me Lyse even while pretending to be Yda had many an instance of being the ditzy blonde. Also, maybe their eye color was different thus part of the reason why she refused to take off her mask or get a new one. They focus on her eye when her mask gets split during the Bloody Banquet escape. In the pre EW story focused on Fordola Yda doesn't come off as a ditzy blonde.

[MikkoAkure]

If you played 1.0, then you met real Yda during the Echo parts and she’s no different than fake Yda and was a ditzy blonde.

Whether or not her personality in 1.0 flashbacks is canon is up in the air but it’s all we have and back then and probably even in ARR I don’t think Yda=Lyse was written anyway.

[Katish]

I think the issue with Lyse is her character's premise, the premise of "all-about-me" (That kind of storytelling works for villains not so much side heroes), which makes her a bit annoying to be quite frank. Having Stormblood basically "Lyse's life" solidified that image imo. And returning her and changing her character too dynamically would result in a whole new character, and that would be quite glaring when playing to whenever that would be introduced. Personally, I like how they removed her and gave her a purpose...I just wish they did it with other Scions as well. (The whole Scion thing is getting old)

[Lyth]

...

I agree with this. As much as the title has evolved from Nyunkrepf's time, being awarded an appellation in honor of the original founders of Sharlayan isn't an achievement simply offered to every scholar. I'm not sure if you're still restricted to twelve Archons at a time, but at the very least this is an achievement on par with receiving a doctorate in a field.

...

I don't think that the Lyse reveal 'undermines' her character, but it feels like this, in conjunction with Papalymo's death, was used to break her connection to the Scions and to sideline her. Like Moenbryda, I feel that this was a character who was written out too early.

...

While it's correct to point out that we never really knew the original Yda, she still had untapped story potential, prior to Stormblood. The Ala Mhigan backstory around the revolution and subsequent Garlean invasion leaves us with the question of 'so what?' And I think it's only when you reconnect that past to the present with the friendships she forged over many years in Sharlayan that you have a fully formed character.

The only way to really change this is to reverse the process. At a minimum, it would be helpful to see Lyse's feelings towards the characters we've recently encountered within Sharlayan, after having spent so many years there alongside her sister. This is one way to expand her story outside of Ala Mhigo. As an Archon, Yda would have allowed for a much more natural development of this approach, and it would have been relatively simple to tie in new plot threads to her mission history.

I can't say for certain that reintroducing Yda at a later point in the story would have a significant impact, but I can say that exploring the relationship between the siblings in more depth would have been of benefit to both their respective characters. It's a bit like how Edgar and Sabin were a lot more interesting (and fun!) together than they would have been as disconnected individuals.

[UkcsAlias]

Please don't, she's boring. Graha summoned people who's fate were closely tied to the Warrior of light, and Lyse wasn't one of them.

Not that he deliberately did that. It was targeted to be WoL all the time, hence the issues that came along with it.

[Cleretic]

Not that he deliberately did that. It was targeted to be WoL all the time, hence the issues that came along with it.

It could also be argued that his 'aim' happened to miss her. It's not clear exactly what his spell was trying to do or exactly how it was failing, but I can think of two ways where it could've just not hit Lyse.

1. If he was going basically by pure skillshot and hitting people nearby (either physically or destiny...ly) when he failed, statistically the current Scions were the most likely people to get hit because they were the people who were close most often--and Lyse basically just slips by out of luck, but was never a high chance since she's not around us as often and is now doing much more of her own thing. This seems to be how it's presented, but it seems a little implausible when you write it out.

2. Since we know he picked post-SB as the time period, it's possible that he basically picked the Scions as a category of 'possible targets'; basically, narrowing down to the smallest group we're definitely in (the Scions, with six other members) and then basically rolling a random number until he hit us. In that case, Lyse was never getting in, because she just wasn't in that field of candidates at the time.

Of course, that's assuming the Exarch was telling the truth when he basically said 'I kept trying and just kept getting other people'; I've no reason to doubt him on this particular point, but he did hide facts and lie a lot in that part of the story. There's luck involved in both of these, one more than the other (Tataru is in the potential pool for both), but basically I can see a good couple reasons why Lyse wouldn't have gotten pulled in without the reason of 'you're not friends anymore'.

...and all of that's not acknowledging the more writer-ly reason she wasn't: because she had her own story going on that wouldn't have been helped by her coming along for Shadowbringers, and that Shadowbringers inversely wouldn't have been helped out by her being there. The latter isn't really true anymore, but the former certainly is if the story takes her away from Ala Mhigo.

[WhiteArchmage]

2. Since we know he picked post-SB as the time period, it's possible that he basically picked the Scions as a category of 'possible targets'; basically, narrowing down to the smallest group we're definitely in (the Scions, with six other members) and then basically rolling a random number until he hit us. In that case, Lyse was never getting in, because she just wasn't in that field of candidates at the time.

Considering we joke that he was playing the gacha until he pulled the SSSR, I like this one the best. Lucky him he didn't end up with 15 Alphinauds, 8 Uriangers and only 2 Y'shtolas.

[JohncarterIx]

bring her back