Crystalline Conflict Tier List (with deep maths!)

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

Ah...tier lists. Normally, I'm not one to subscribe to tier lists, especially subjectively built ones that are based on nothing but an individual's personal experiences. But I wanted a way to quantify the very clear gaps in capability between the jobs in CC, so my good friend and I have spent the past week laboring to build a tier list that's as objective as possible. To do this, we've created a rubric system for scoring each job, and we've done a lot of painstaking math. Keep in mind that no methodology will ever be perfect, and there will always be cases in which a job will look one way on paper and perform another way in practice. It is 100% ok to use the eye test and personal experience to compare, contrast, and temper what you see here on this list.

I'll break down the rubric that we used below, but full disclosure up front: I am a BRD main, with sub jobs in DNC, PLD, and SGE (in that order); my friend who helped build this list is an aspiring MNK main.





Jobs were placed into S, A, B, or C tier depending on how many points they earned across five categories: ~1GCD single-target burst, ~1GCD AoE burst, mobility, crowd control, and defensive ability. Each category had its own scoring subsystem, and each subsystem had its own rules in an attempt to weigh the true value of certain things, so that we weren't weighing Bind and Stun as the exact same value, for example. We selected these scoring categories because in my experience, it is these things that decide the outcomes of games--and therefore, a job's success is directly tied to its ability to contribute in one or more of these categories. Simply put, combat in Crystalline Conflict is determined by volume of unreactable damage. Crowd control helps make more damage less reactable, and mobility/defense help your team avoid or mitigate said damage. But at the end of the day, burst decides games.

Single-target Burst
1 GCD single target burst (henceforth STB) will be graded based on the highest possible burst with up to 3 oGCD’s, with LB’s being eligible for the GCD slot. No bonus damage will be counted from possible AoE. Hard crowd control inherent to the combo will allow an additional GCD to be counted. Indeterminate/repeatable values and DoTs will be counted for a nominal 3 procs. SAM and NIN will each be awarded a baseline of 1 point due to their execution-type LBs.

AoE Burst
1 GCD AoE burst (henceforth AoE) will be graded based on possible total potency on 3 targets, with up to 3 oGCD’s. No bonus damage will be counted from weaving in single-target-only abilities. The other rules from STB also apply.

Mobility
Mobility will be graded based on distance (in yalms) available per minute, with a half value being applied on mobility that is only valid on one type of target (ally/enemy), and a double value being applied for mobility that requires no target. “Piggybacking” on your target’s movement will not be counted.

Crowd Control
Crowd control will be graded on seconds of available crowd control in one minute, with a half value applied for “soft” crowd control (defined as buttons other than Purify are still available), a double value applied for uncleansable crowd control, and a triple value applied for uncleansable and unblockable crowd control. Seconds of AoE crowd control will be counted on a nominal 3 targets affected. Knockback and draw-in effects will be converted on the basis of 5y per second.

Defense
Defense will be graded based on total available shield value, total available healing, and/or best effective HP increase available within a single cooldown cycle. AoE mitigation/healing will be counted on a nominal 3 targets affected. Indeterminate/repeatable values and regens will be counted for a nominal 3 procs. Recuperate and Guard will not be counted. PLD, DRK, SGE, and DRG will each be awarded a baseline of 1 additional point due to their invulnerability LBs. AST, MNK, BRD, MCH, and DNC will each be awarded a baseline of 1 additional point due to their indeterminate values.

[Valence]

Without talking about well... everything that's not about math in how games actually end up going, there are ratings I can see why you get those results, but some others... puzzle me hard. How is MCH AoE so low? How is SCH defense (mega party shields, etc) rated so low? RDM mobility so low? How is RDM burst and MCH burst so low? And GNB in what stance? Wouldnt it need technically 3 different prisms? For example on tank stance it's literally an unbreakable brick (that doesnt do more besides LB).

And overall why healers get so poor ratings on defense if healing is included? They're mega carries on healing alone... I'm not really convinced...

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

Without talking about well... everything that's not about math in how games actually end up going, there are ratings I can see why you get those results, but some others... puzzle me hard. How is MCH AoE so low? How is SCH defense (mega party shields, etc) rated so low? RDM mobility so low? How is RDM burst and MCH burst so low? And GNB in what stance? Wouldnt it need technically 3 different prisms? For example on tank stance it's literally an unbreakable brick (that doesnt do more besides LB).

And overall why healers get so poor ratings on defense if healing is included? They're mega carries on healing alone... I'm not really convinced...

I have a Google doc that we were using to break down all the in-depth calculations if you wanted to see that. Also, you keep saying "rated so low" for jobs that are scoring 4/5 points in the category you specify? A rating of 4 is very high under our rubric--scores of 5 are almost impossible to get and are reserved for jobs that are unquestionable best-in-class for that capability.

Keep in mind that AoE is rated specifically for ~1GCD AoE BURST, not for sustained AoE. If we were calculating for that, then SGE and SCH would break the scales. MCH doesn't actually have that much consistently repeatable AoE anyway--not in the way that Phlegma spam or Biolysis can be used. Similarly, defensive ratings are graded around one cooldown cycle, not repeatable healing like WHM/AST. You could make an argument that the two pure healers should be awarded an extra point just by virtue of how much repeatable healing they have, but the grading criterion was specifically built to compare each job's short-term contribution to the survival of a targeted attack.

RDM single-target burst was a huge clusterfrick of averaging that best possible combos in both White Shift and Black Shift, so the average will naturally be a bit lower. I suppose in theory we COULD grade jobs like GNB or RDM based on their stances--it'd require a bit of retooling and an updated graphic. Fun fact--the math states that GNB actually has more effective health in Junction Healer than in Junction Tank.

[Llynethil]

MCH aoe is prob due to the aoe's outside of bioblaster not being that great, shotgun is very meh on more than one target, nobody is gonna stand in the turret for more than one tick and any decent opponent isn't gonna wildfire their own team if they can prevent it, so all you have left is short range bioblaster, and a line aoe chainsaw that is very meh without target being <50% and analyzing it.

White mage not being S and even being below sage is strange though, strongest non lb cc, one of the strongest lb's, great healing, great burst both aoe and single target, one of the top jobs in pvp right now for sure.

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

White mage not being S and even being below sage is strange though, strongest non lb cc, one of the strongest lb's, great healing, great burst both aoe and single target, one of the top jobs in pvp right now for sure.

WHM definitely has a much more powerful psychological impact that what the numbers say. However, if you look at it objectively, WHM isn't actually that powerful in many of those aspects. MoN is the strongest non-LB CC, but it's not exactly a short cooldown. Afflatus Purgation is an excellent LB, nobody is denying that. But it does have significant opportunities for counterplay, especially if your team has good players who are actually paying attention to the enemy WHM's LB bar and position/punish correctly. Its burst damage is also not actually that high in comparison to what other jobs can put out. Its only real burst is from Afflatus Misery, which is just 12k potency in an AoE. Even Purgation->Misery only comes out to 30200 potency, and requires an LB--not very strong compared to what DRG can do with just regular buttons.

I can tell you from experience that the number of WHM's in top tier play has definitely been on a steady decline for the past few seasons, since people have figured out how to deal with them. AST is more common now, since they bring a lot more value to high-skill teams and it's much more difficult to counter an AST's game plan.

[Pet_me]

I feel like you don't even know what whm lb does

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

No (The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

Lol if you have nothing productive to contribute then why even post. I'd like to know why you think this is an inaccurate system, and maybe what you'd do better.

Is there a reason why you excluded things like utility (buffs to damage/reductions to damage taken) and sustained damage?

Partywide damage buffs are too indeterminate to calculate, and self-only buffs/debuffs were factored into the math already. Sustained damage is also largely indeterminate and almost impossible to calculate--and honestly, it's not a big factor in the actual game itself. Almost all combat in Crystalline Conflict is decided by properly placed burst. The only value you get out of sustained DPS is the possibility of forcing out a Recuperate, which can easily be Elixir'd back--if the skirmishing is light enough that you have time to leverage sustained poke, then it's light enough to LoS and Elixir.

I feel like you don't even know what whm lb does

I am keenly aware of exactly what WHM LB does and how often it's up. Again, I'm not in any way saying that it's a bad or low-value LB--but it CAN be played against. Compare AST LB, which has precisely zero counterplay and arguably vastly more value. I get that WHM is big scary laser with tons of value attached, but with correct positioning and good usage of crowd control nullification, you can turn WHM LB into "18k damage to one person with tons of value attached", which is honestly approaching playable. It's not like AST LB, which strangles the fight with overwhelming numerical superiority.

The class I play: F tier
Every other class: S tier

LOL a majority of the jobs are clumped in B tier, don't be daft about it. Unless you think none of the scoring criteria are valid or that I'm purposely omitting some criterion in which BRD would excel above all other jobs, there's not really any sort of manipulation I can do to make BRD look bad on purpose. Especially after the nerfs, I don't think there's any pretending that BRD is actually a good and competitive job when compared to things like DRG.

I am very curious as to how you determined the maths and what statistical analysis you used and how much variance was taken into account.

Add me on discord @ nadoP! I'll DM you the sheets, and that way you can ask any further/more detailed questions in DM's.

[Pet_me]

Disengaging from a buff is impossible

[kayll]

Partywide damage buffs are too indeterminate to calculate, and self-only buffs/debuffs were factored into the math already. Sustained damage is also largely indeterminate and almost impossible to calculate--and honestly, it's not a big factor in the actual game itself. Almost all combat in Crystalline Conflict is decided by properly placed burst. The only value you get out of sustained DPS is the possibility of forcing out a Recuperate, which can easily be Elixir'd back--if the skirmishing is light enough that you have time to leverage sustained poke, then it's light enough to LoS and Elixir.

I don't agree with partywide damage buffs being "indeterminate" ,especially ones that just exist on you in an aura like Bards,They are almost always in play in the background and increasing your teams damage, probably enabling kills on players that would get away with minimal amounts of HP otherwise.

Sustained damage helps in the background as well,People aren't going to push into you with Half HP/Half MP, they are going to be the in back using an elixir and if someone is in the back and using elixir they aren't pushing the crystal and they aren't there setting up burst on your team.
Is it hard to calculate the value of that? Well yeah cause you can't see the future,but saying it does nothing doesn't seem fair.