CC Maps

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

Time to follow up my highly controversial job ranking experiment with a maybe equally controversial opinion on CC maps! I think my opinions are pretty sane and normal but I've been told that everything I know is wrong. Anyway, let's get to it!

Palaistra
Absofruitly the best map, although I've heard some people hate it. Personally, I don't understand what there is to hate, unless you think map hazards are a cool and interesting part of the game. I'm more of a Final Destination no items kind of person, so Palaistra is definitely my favorite. The sightlines and spaces feel well-crafted, where both ranged and melee can find effective positions to fight from. The quintessential CC map.

Volcanic Heart
As a BRD main, it does pain me a bit to put this in second--but I must admit that once you learn where the sightlines are, this map isn't actually that horrible to play as a ranged job. The eruptions do give a lot of power to jobs with knockbacks (or Blota), and the damage boosting orbs enabling unreactable one-shots is a questionable design decision...but all in all, some of my best matches and overtimes have been on this map.

Cloud Nine
Cloud Nine is pretty...okay. Melee players are always complaining about how horrible it is for them, but I say they eat pretty good on Volcanic Heart and Clockwork Castletown, so the ranged players deserve a map tipped in their favor. That said, C9 does feel very swingy at times. A map that somehow manages to feel extremely stompable yet extremely throwable at the same time.

Clockwork Castletown
If I could emphasize how much I'd put this map in dead last, I would. The myriad map hazards and pop-up speech from Kageyama make for a cluttered and unfocused experience, while the random coin drops shift the LB economy unpredictably. And if your team doesn't agree on which door to (not) take in the opening? Good luck. On top of all this, the structure feels more claustrophobic than even Volcanic Heart, with too many flank angles to keep track of. Like C9, the Castletown also feels eminently stompable yet throwable. It's rare that I feel like I've had a good and fair contest on this map.

What are your favorite maps? How would you rack n stack em? GIANT DISCLAIMER IN BOLD BEFORE ANYONE GETS THE WRONG IDEA: these are just my opinions and you are entitled to your own. Okay with that out of the way, civil discussion machine go!

[Valence]

I'll try to elaborate on my feelings on their respective leveling designs. Trying to be as materialistic as I can.

Pathing and layout

The reason why Palaistra and Volcanic Heart work the best in terms of pathing design is how the mid checkpoints are designed. If you look closely at them, you have multiple avenues to attack them, and they're also not clustered into a close space, but not standing in a free highway devoid of anything either.
- Palaistra, Volcanic and C9 are set in a corner/turn, which means that both teams (defenders and attackers) can take cover behind the edge.
- Palaistra and Volcanic have more than 2 avenues to attack it. Palaistra has 3 and same for Volcanic, although the latter is less open.

The reason why C9 checkpoints are only a semi success (or semi fail) to my eyes is that it does only share the corner type of point from the former maps, but has only 2 paths going in and out, and both stand in a highway devoid of anything. Any team securing the point makes it extremely difficulty to take back because they'll control the edge and have a free line of sight and attack on anybody trying to come at them.

The reason why Castletown checkpoints are a total disaster is because they're not even in a corner, so they just stand in the middle of a freeway which makes them impossible to assault well, and the 3 paths leading to them are a trap for the simple reason that attacking from the tatamis is a death wish as soon as half your team gets stunned there (if they even agree to all come from the same direction...).

There is a reason some of the maps are very biased toward a win as soon as the mid checkpoint is cleared. Castletown feels like once that checkpoint has been validated, you barely have 30s or a minute to react else the crystal has already gone all the way. Castletown and C9 last pushes are also not vulnerable from flanking pathways on the sides. Both those maps lack a clear defender's advantage in terms of layout.

Edit: to conclude, in my view what makes a good checkpoint and a good second segment located past that checkpoint is:
- The lack of gigantic freeways that makes it extremely difficult to assault those points when a team has already taken position on them and fortified (elixired up, full roster here, etc). They makes it even harder to attack if there is enough space for the defender to spread around, and lessens the impact of AoE jobs the team trying to contest can field up. Freeways are essentially the other facet of cover options around checkpoints.
- The lack of pathways and attack avenues, especially the ones favoring the defender (there is only one on palaistra, kinda, but those would be a third/fourth pathway linking the defender's area directly to the checkpoint, meaning hard or impossible to access for the attackers, but freely available for the defenders.

Cover

I'm not too bothered by the lack of cover on C9. It's a double edged sword, as it makes ranged DPS very vulnerable to anybody trying to jump them. I wouldn't mind more pathing options, aka more of the wooden catwalk on the sides.

Some may counter that when it comes to that point a game is lost anyway, but the fact that C9 and Castletown have a wall in front of the spawn point (partially for castletown and fully for C9) is actually good to protect the spawn a little, which Palaistra and Volcanic don't have. The problem is the C9 wall and where it's set in relation to the mega highway that's behind can also work against the defender, as soon as you peek out, you get mowed down if the opponent is already close to the wall.

Minus points for the stupid hitbox ledges around the blocks in volcanic.

Gimmicks

There is a point where too many gimmicks kill the gimmicks. Castletown is a clusterfuck of this and while I understand it's the point of the map, it's obnoxious. The map would have already fared a lot better for me where it not for the mammets/automatons. The gold coins are a fun and good idea, and the mats are actually fun as well to play around, on top of being a gimmick that's PERMANENTLY up. Add to this the hidden doors and that's also a good idea at first until you see the disaster it is for openings, but if you start adding the mammets on top of it it's just... too much.

The amount of paths plays against random teams a lot, and heavily favors melee harassers (they can come from literally anywhere, unlike volcanic where they are just helped by the heavy amount of LOS and cover).

[sugmacoganbols]

'ate palaistra
luv volcanic 'eart
simple as

[Shikiseki]

my only real complaint about the maps is that the rotation feels too long - it should rotate more often (especially the basic one should be more often than the others)
I kinda see the clockwork one quite often too, hope they will adjust it to appear more evenly but it's gimmicks don't really bother me anymore as it did in the beginning. It can be quite overwhelming at first though

My favourite is the volcano one, it has a lot of options to create an opening and take cover if needed.

That said, I'd like to see an ice themed maybe next as I can imagine it being extremely annoying haha. More creative layouts would also be welcomed, a crystal themed one maybe with more circular patterns instead of the square ones to shake things up

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

my only real complaint about the maps is that the rotation feels too long - it should rotate more often (especially the basic one should be more often than the others)
I kinda see the clockwork one quite often too, hope they will adjust it to appear more evenly but it's gimmicks don't really bother me anymore as it did in the beginning. It can be quite overwhelming at first though

My favourite is the volcano one, it has a lot of options to create an opening and take cover if needed.

That said, I'd like to see an ice themed maybe next as I can imagine it being extremely annoying haha. More creative layouts would also be welcomed, a crystal themed one maybe with more circular patterns instead of the square ones to shake things up

Love the ice themed one, as long as potentially slippery ground effects aren't too obnoxious. <_<

Honestly, part of the problem of even hating on certain maps is that we have a map rotation every 90min rather than "these are all the maps, you get one chosen at random, good luck" like every other game. This would stop people from avoiding queues for specific maps. Some hate Volcano, some hate Clockwork, I personally hate Cloud Nine with a burning passion and avoid it if I can - yes I'm part of the problem, but honestly rotating maps shouldnt be a thing in the first place - equal chance of every map and call it a day.

[Ransu]

Palaistra is the only map I like because its the only normal map. The rest have good layouts that get ruined by BS like the tatami nonsense or volcanic heart turning into a glorified bomberman map. Just turn that garbage off and they become solid maps.

[kayll]

Cloud Nine is the only one I actively avoid, not much strategy to be had on this map I feel, seems better suited for classes that can pump out damage non stop.

[Elfidan]

There simply isn't enough time or words to express my irritation with C3. I don't really have any issues with the rest, and I play all regardless. That being said there's just too much going on in C3 and you can see people lag out when the event happens and a couple big LB fire off at the same time. That in particular doesn't feel great even if your team isn't the one with the laggy person. Most people still don't understand tatami mats despite having been pulled or pushed to their deaths hundreds of times. I like the coins though. In fact, better than the power ups rom C9 and VH.

Palaistra is my second least favorite. It may be a primal thing but there's always one person who just runs in and dies at the start. It's like it was made too simple and their brain just goes into sleep mode. This one also seems to be the hotspot for QuickChat spammers.

Volcanic heart is great. I love it as ranged. I love it as melee. I love it as healer. The only thing I hate about it is a people issue. We all know about those pac-man MF who abandon a fight to get all the pellets only to come back and die 3-5 vs 1.

C9 is for sure my favorite, but that's to be expected as I prefer a mostly straight up fight but enjoy the layout better than Palaistra. I don't really have problems with the wind mechanic, and I feel like it generally has the least amazing 1% from lose to win bull crap going on.

[Raikai]

Honestly, I really enjoyed Castletown. I'd in fact, make it even more chaotic with things happening all the time, not just intervals. What I don't like about this map is how it looks a bit 'off' with how linear the crystal push design is.

All and all, CC is good, but going through a whole expansion just with CC (because let's face it, Frontlines are horrible as they are) gets old really fast. I really hope that 7.0 is going to introduce more modes with light parties instead, or at the very least different layouts for CC.