remove stuns

[Buzuru]

i don't care what anyone else has said.

remove stuns.

[Shurrikhan]

i don't care what anyone else has said.

Then that kind of defeats the point of posting here, no?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

i don't care what anyone else has said.

remove stuns.

If you're looking for an echo chamber go to twitter. Threads aren't a place for posting unpopular takes and proceeding to not provide any counterpoints to our arguments.

[Astralrisk]

i don't care what anyone else has said.

remove stuns.

Knew this post was bait...

[Oizen]

i don't care what anyone else has said.

remove stuns.

based af ,

[Quuoooote]

Fetter ward use to take care of these issues and should see a return.

I'd really love to see the old Fetter Ward effect somewhat folded into Purify, personally. For two major reasons:

One, it'd add some depth to the button in that you can preemptively Purify in order to guarantee your combo at the expense of not having it available as a defensive option. It's a small thing but it would bump up the individual skill ceiling just a touch, which is always a welcome sort of change to me. And if five seconds of on-demand CC immunity is too potent, it could be reworked into something like 3s baseline immunity that is buffed to 5s when used to cleanse a debuff.

Two, the amount of times I've managed to press Purify 0.01 seconds after the server has registered a debuff falling off (and thus been punished with zero immunity against the subsequent lethal chain CC) is a little painful. Partially a skill issue, absolutely, but also largely a netcode issue that could be alleviated somewhat with a slightly more generous Fetter Ward effect. Using the same "3s baseline, 5s when cleansing" approach would also discourage mistiming a Purify and keep some element of skill issue punishment intact, if you're really into that.

[Valence]

I'm still staunchly convinced that turning Purify from reactive to preemptive would actually lower skill expression, because it's not exactly hard to just press the button just before a burst, go in and do your thing unimpeded, then go out once it's over. Can't exactly say the same about a reactive button, you're at the mercy of whatever the enemy is about to do, where and when and you don't control it, however you can try and predict it, and position more carefully, which induces a lot more skill expression.

Fetter Ward on the other hand is just a godmode button that has very little counters but a gigantic burst to repel the person using it. I can already predict 110% that at crystal level, you'll never get any punishing kill anymore against harassers. Even in diam and lower actually. As a side effect, this would also outright demolish ranged dps jobs.

The only thing I don't like with current Purify is the time it takes to cleanse/use it which already accounts for half the duration of most CCs.

[Quuoooote]

I agree with your sentiment to an extent, and I'm sure that's why SE has chosen to implement Purify in its current state as a purely defensive tool. Giving Fetter Ward to harassers would undoubtedly be pretty strong.

To play devil's advocate though, Purify as it currently exists isn't exactly hard to press either. Got stunned/silenced/movement impeded? Press Purify. You can argue that there's nuance in choosing to hold it and eat the full duration of CC, but that decision wouldn't be lessened by adding a Fetter effect. You mention prediction and positioning as forms of skill expression, which I agree with, but you could just as easily apply the argument to being on the receiving end of harassers. Position more carefully and LoS them, and/or use your Guard until after their CC immunity ends so you can kite them while they're vulnerable. "Gigantic burst" would probably be a much more viable means of countering Fetter in the current iteration of PvP as well since healers can't burst heal allies to full to counteract it, and harassers would need to trade precious seconds of CC immunity mashing recup to survive. Getting a punishment kill on a harasser would also be strictly easier since, assuming they didn't Purify a debuff (and no one wasted CC on the active Fetter), that's one more available CC tool at your disposal for stunning and killing them the moment their debuff immunity wears off.

[Valence]

You cannot position more carefully and LOS harassers if they have free reign and the superior mobility, unhindered by a buff making them invulnerable to CC. It's already a pain in the current state of the game where they can be CCed...

If you make Fetter Ward short in duration, then everybody will say that it's useless because it protects for 5s, of which half will be spent actually activating the skill and diving in, and they'll be right, because that's essentially what current Purify does after cleansing something (which is designed to leave you some room to get away, not to dive in). On top of it, Fetter Ward didn't cleanse CC in the past, so if it doesn't, getting CCed will essentially means you're Miracle of Nature'd, so possibly screwed or promised to chain CC with your Fetter Ward sitting unused.

If you make it longer, then it's essentially as I described, just press the button, dive in, do your burst or attempt to kill a cripple, and dive out once the buff fades away.

"Gigantic bursts" are already how to deal with harassers, because the actually good ones will rarely expose themselves naked (out of guard and purify), so they'll always have guard and purify ready. The only way to delete them is to delete them faster than they can mitigate damage once their guard is out, and try to take advantage of the time it takes them to purify the first CC they eat, or especially CC them right when they're the most vulnerable (like for example a MNK just before they resolve Riddle of Earth). If you remove the need for purify, they gain precious seconds to zoom away whenever they please, which is a buff to their impunity.

[Quuoooote]

I suppose where we disagree is whether a job would be capable of diving in, comboing/killing, and then escaping all in a three second window or not. I personally doubt such a length of time would give any job enough time to zoom away after the fact, and they'd in fact be left fairly vulnerable which is where the individual risk vs. reward element comes into play. If a competent melee player needs to save guard and purify to guarantee their survival, then having to burn one of those offensively would surely create a window of opportunity to kill them, no? Especially if you position in such a way that their commitment separates them from their team and denies them backup.

I don't intend to belabor the point though; I'm fully willing to concede that you could be right and know better than I do. We just don't know how these things would actually shake out in application, and we could be here all day talking hypothetical.

What I can agree with you on with absolute certainty is that the button could stand to be much more responsive. Half of the reason I even suggest the 'mini-Purify' on non-debuff press is to address the fringe cases where bad netcode makes your usage register after a debuff has already fallen off, resulting in a complete waste. Giving Purify some extra charity via a lessened-but-guaranteed effect would alleviate the issue without detracting too much from its intended usage; it just also happens to open the whole "offensive Purify" can of worms since that would be a natural byproduct of such a band-aid. If SE addressed the netcode or made Purify apply faster, that'd be great and I'd be completely satisfied with Purify in its current form. But knowing SE's track record with netcode related issues, I'm not holding my breath.