Linear, linear, linear

[Absurdity]

But, what was actually lost, unless one considers any additional time taken in traversing the terrain as an absolute downside?

Even at the worst count, HW+ zones have (at least) as many features per zone as do ARR zones. They just also happen to have more space between them, which can come with advantages is building an aesthetic and making the zone seem more realistic.

Detail in zones, be that environment clutter, points of interest or landmarks.

I guess you could also say the newer zones lost "immersion", as limited as it already is in XIV, because after ARR you rarely ever find random NPCs going about their day or even buildings that you can enter anymore.

[Shurrikhan]

The easiest answer to that is density allows more casual player interaction. The second obvious one is you no longer appreciate the environment because you're always flying around.

I can only think of a few places where that really applied to ARR. But, at the same time, I can equally think of as many in the Sea of Clouds, The Fringes, Tempest, etc. Both before and after flight, player density was very much 'snapped' to particular hotspots. Population wasn't more spread about the world because the world's value was more spread, but simply because any particular snapshot of all players' activity in the zone was less likely to be spent in travel in close proximity of each other (in that time moving to places of actual value to them).

You were no more likely to meet someone actually doing things not along the route between FATEs in South Shroud, Eastern La Noscea, Central Coerthas, or Eastern or Northern Thanalan, etc. than in HW zones (though I largely blame the lower relative density of gathering loops for that, if we are to include this game's shitty 'gathering' as an open world use). People just rode by what wasn't lucrative even then, just as they'd fly by it later.

The problem of most of the world seeming not worth spending time in wasn't new to larger zones. Nor were lively NPC-populated settlements fewer in, say, Dravanian Forelands than the likes of East Shroud.

I'll agree wholly that it would have been great to spread out and vary the reasons for interaction with the open world, but... that's not a mere matter of density. That's a matter of too limited of lucrative activities.

Simply shrinking zones again, for instance -- let alone to the constant invisible walls and claustrophobia of so many of ARR's zones -- isn't going to make the world more lively. It never has been. At best, it was just slightly easier to pretend otherwise before.

If we want a more lively world, we'll need to do more with the world itself, not just to shorten the distances between everything (e.g., to the absurdities of a fort within cannon-shot of another fort within cannon-shot of another fort, all to protect... no one who couldn't already be evacuated equally easily to the central fort itself [compare against the far more sensible 1.x Coerthas distribution of NPC populations]).

Detail in zones, be that environment clutter, points of interest or landmarks.

Except there's at least an equal amount [not necessarily portion or density, but yes, amount] of details (just not as necessarily of a 'populated' sort, since it's supposed to be... well, frontier), and, heck, a majority of the points of interests / landmarks / favorite views from ground level that stick in mind for me... were from the larger zones, even back when ARR's zones outnumbered them.

I guess you could also say the newer zones lost "immersion", as limited as it already is in XIV, because after ARR you rarely ever find random NPCs going about their day

Except in, you know, most of those zones?

I think a step in the right direction towards making players spend more time in the open world of XIV would be to allow the gathering node detecting skills to be on no matter the job.

Agreed. I feel like the complete separation of gathering from combat classes and gameplay was... about the worst decision they could make for trying to situate gathering interestingly in the larger world, but even just giving more opportunity to notice those nodes without having to be dressed prior in your 'mobs, please kill me in two hits' gear would be pretty big help.

[R041]

...

Size of the map definitely matters, and flying has significantly affected the amount of passerbys overall. Then obviously the next major problem is we keep making new zones every expansion while continuing to stretch the MSQ itself, so only a fraction of players are ever even doing the same content together. The only time this game's open world feels even remotely lively is weekend of a BLU update, when it should be every day. I don't know if I'd even count hunt farms - Because that's such a slog, and requires no brain power or discussion either.

Leves are gone, so even there's less reason..

This is how I remember ARR, not 100% dungeon spam: https://youtu.be/G6GtJJzkoWI

It's funny because I bet they thought it'd force players to interact with each other by only doing dungeons, but they decided to dumb those down too so most players never need to talk to finish them.

Everything requiring any form of human interaction as a game (except raid) has been entirely stripped from XIV's daily life. It feels soulless most of the time. :/

XIV is the silent single-player MMO now.

[Shurrikhan]

XIV is the silent single-player MMO now.

I agree. I just don't think the symptom you're fixating on is remotely the cause, nor even a really a contributing context.

This is how I remember ARR, not 100% dungeon spam: https://youtu.be/G6GtJJzkoWI

So... you fondly remember soloing leves... rather than even... any of the group content (that was far, far more popularly done even back in ARR)? Sure, you could see a fellow player doing their leves in the distance, but you were effectively shard-ed away from one another, prevented from affecting anything they were fighting.

And, again... Heavensward didn't remove Battle Leves anyways. That didn't happen until later.

:: For my part, I remember ARR via FATEs and shout-formed dungeon groups (often missing either a healer or tank or even just running with 4 SMNs, since we could kite all but ranged enemies and Titan could boss TBs and especially AoEs just fine back then).

Everything requiring any form of human interaction as a game (except raid) has been entirely stripped from XIV's daily life. It feels soulless most of the time. :/

It still has exactly the same amount it had before, minus only leves and the hunting log after level 60 (replaced by more frequent and lucrative Clan Hunts). And that's if excluding Exploratory Missions from remotely 'open-world' content.

These problems aren't new. They've been the norm since ARR itself. The last time people actually cared about random treasure, the mob sites/camps themselves, or varied/personally set gathering loops... was in 1.x.

If you want those problems dealt with, then it'd be better to look at the disease, not just some reflection of a particular symptom.