Linear, linear, linear

[Absurdity]

Honestly, I've found a lot of them to be improvements anyway. Does anyone actually miss waiting forever for the first two bosses in Copperbell to actually do anything?

Copperbell is probably one of the few examples where I would agree that the changes, at least to bosses, are justified. I personally dislike the removal of the already limited interactions with the environment however.

It still falls under baby's first dungeon and while I never had an issue with the add fights (I still remember when they didn't die in a single hit) it is understandable that they were replaced with an introduction to what boss mechanics are going to look like.

The fact that modern fights can be boiled down to stack, spread, dodge the cleave, is a different discussion entirely.

[Hurlstone]

Open world does not always make for a better experience, personally speaking the open world element actively put me off games like Dragon Age Inquisition. Currently playing and really enjoying FFXVI, and I like that its a more linear experience... that said, I do have issues with it. There is enough space in most maps to explore but it often feels unworthy to do so unless you have a quest, and tiresome before you get a mount. What rewards you do find from going off the path are little more then crafting items, and given how weak that system is in the game, its unfortunate. Perhaps it will change when I am deeper into the game.

As for FFXIV, I would like more reasons to explore the open world, though with dungeons I am fine with how they are, mostly because the MMO mindset of most players is to do things quick and swiftly. Players will always find a way to cheeses things to make them faster, or take the moist ‘optimum’ route no matter what incentives there are. Its the same with every other MMO I have played. At least SE do not put important, unrepeatable quests and dialogue moments in its dunegons… yes, that was a dig at you ESO. I love ya, but hate how MMO you are. If anything I would rather we get more variation in bosses then dungeon layout, like some fights that have puzzle elements or involve NPCs etc. Always boggle my mind that Bardam's Mettle is like the only one with a boss fight that does not have a combat element to it. More like that I say!

[Atelier-Bagur]

Copperbell is probably one of the few examples where I would agree that the changes, at least to bosses, are justified. I personally dislike the removal of the already limited interactions with the environment however.

It still falls under baby's first dungeon and while I never had an issue with the add fights (I still remember when they didn't die in a single hit) it is understandable that they were replaced with an introduction to what boss mechanics are going to look like.

The fact that modern fights can be boiled down to stack, spread, dodge the cleave, is a different discussion entirely.

Funny how Toto-Rak was also one of the most bleh dungeons to run through before the change.

Granted its still bleh with the recent change but at least you dont have to deal with photocells or slowdown goo or getting grumpy if the group doesnt take the optimal path.

I wish they set dressed the instance a little bit more interesting though. Its such a shame they didnt take the opportunity to put more cool looking Gelmorran structures to make the linearity at least more interesting visually.

[AmiableApkallu]

Honestly, I've found a lot of them to be improvements anyway. Does anyone actually miss waiting forever for the first two bosses in Copperbell to actually do anything?

I actually do think the changes to Copperbell removed a fair bit of the dungeon's character. Two "bosses" that weren't simply the now-standard tank-and-spank.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I actually do think the changes to Copperbell removed a fair bit of the dungeon's character. Two "bosses" that weren't simply the now-standard tank-and-spank.

True but those bosses were terrible at setting up the expectations of fight design in later content as it never goes that unique ever again. Besides Im pretty sure nobody was singing those two bosses their praises back when they were still there.

[TheMightyMollusk]

The first boss was waves of dull slow-spawning trash ending with one slightly stronger gigas. The second boss was a lot of standing around waiting for that bloody lever to turn back on. I don't miss either.

[Atelier-Bagur]

The first boss was waves of dull slow-spawning trash ending with one slightly stronger gigas. The second boss was a lot of standing around waiting for that bloody lever to turn back on. I don't miss either.

NOW GRANTED, if CBU3 actually kept with the unique boss encounter design where later boss fights were more than just tank and spank then yeah those old boss designs would've made sense to keep as tutorials even if they were were lame and boring.

Lets face it, the linearity didnt start with EW. Its started as soon as the game went to Heveansward as dungeons and bosses became more and more streamlined as the expansions rolled by. Is this a good thing? weeeelll part of me enjoys the consistency in content being simple and familiar to the point you dont need to whip out a wiki or dungeon guide to come prepared for every single dungeon and encounter in the game. That would get frustrating and old real fast, but I do wish they at least dabble in just a few twists here and there that still keep the encounters simple but give them something unique to it.

One notable example is the 2nd boss in Bardam's Mettle. I like the idea that the whole thing is just dodging its AoEs. Not every boss needs to be that subversive like that but its stuff like that I wish the team would explore at least for dungeon content

[FatalFatalis]

Let me tell you something that isn't linear, bear attacks, they're no joke. I mean, you're out there in the wilderness, right? You're in their home. It's not like they're coming into your living room, knocking over your TV and raiding your fridge. No, you're stepping into their world. And these creatures, they're majestic, but they're also terrifying. They're like nature's perfect killing machine, but they're not doing it because they're evil or something. They're just trying to survive, just like you and me.

Now, some people, they'll tell you, 'Oh, just play dead, the bear will leave you alone.' But let me tell you something, that's not always the case. You play dead with a grizzly, maybe it works. But you play dead with a black bear, it might just start eating you. It's not about comfort, it's about understanding the situation, the struggle, the reality of nature. It's about respect, man.

And that's what it's all about, right? Respect. Respect for the power and the beauty of nature, but also the danger. It's like life, man. It's not supposed to be comfortable all the time. You're supposed to struggle, to face challenges, to push yourself. That's how you grow. That's how you learn. So, next time you're out there in the woods, remember that. Respect the bears, respect nature, and respect yourself.

You know what they say.
If it's brown, play dead.
If it's black, fight back.
If it's white, pray to your gods, because you are gonna meet them soon.

[AmiableApkallu]

True but those bosses were terrible at setting up the expectations of fight design in later content as it never goes that unique ever again. Besides Im pretty sure nobody was singing those two bosses their praises back when they were still there.

I guess I'd view that as a problem with "later content" not actually doing anything interesting or doing anything outside of a tiny, formulaic box.

Why is it a problem that content piece X has a mechanic that's seen no where else?

[Atelier-Bagur]

I guess I'd view that as a problem with "later content" not actually doing anything interesting or doing anything outside of a tiny, formulaic box.

Why is it a problem that content piece X has a mechanic that's seen no where else?

There's nothing wrong with it. Its just the mistake of having those mechanics be present as the "tutorial" bosses. If they've applied those designs to a later boss (which arguably would probably fair better) down the road then it'll be great.