Linear, linear, linear

[NekoMataMata]

This is, frankly, entirely an "us" issue (as in the players). They used to create dungeons with multiple paths, optional side areas, etc.. What did we the playerbase do? Find which path was "optimal" for the fastest clear, and completely ignore anything that was optional. Case in point - every single ARR dungeon I played, the only way I ever got the map completion achievements for them (which involves exploring all of those side paths) was to queue as the tank and insist on going to them. This isn't about SE. This is what we did as players when they created non-linear content. I'm not surprised at all that SE simply started designing the content the way we insisted on playing it anyway.

But then you could say that it's SE's fault for not putting anything interesting in the optional paths that motivates people to deviate.

[TheMightyMollusk]

But then you could say that it's SE's fault for not putting anything interesting in the optional paths that motivates people to deviate.

Wouldn't really matter what they put there. Sooner or later, people would just ignore it to get the content over with. Dungeon gear isn't incentive enough, because it doesn't last long enough to be worth the effort; minions, mounts, and other collectibles are one-and-done, so nobody cares to keep going for them again and again (and if they're tradeable, they'd either be some low RNG chance of dropping, or guaranteed drops that won't hold value for long, so it still wouldn't be worth it); experience, gil, tomes, and materia are easily acquired from so many other sources that it'd be pointless; and, as criterion dungeons show, just having more interesting fights isn't enough for people to care if the rewards aren't worthwhile.

It's really just an inherent flaw in daily repeatable content. Eventually, people just want to get it done fast, optional stuff be damned.

[NekoMataMata]

Wouldn't really matter what they put there. Sooner or later, people would just ignore it to get the content over with. Dungeon gear isn't incentive enough, because it doesn't last long enough to be worth the effort; minions, mounts, and other collectibles are one-and-done, so nobody cares to keep going for them again and again (and if they're tradeable, they'd either be some low RNG chance of dropping, or guaranteed drops that won't hold value for long, so it still wouldn't be worth it); experience, gil, tomes, and materia are easily acquired from so many other sources that it'd be pointless; and, as criterion dungeons show, just having more interesting fights isn't enough for people to care if the rewards aren't worthwhile.

It's really just an inherent flaw in daily repeatable content. Eventually, people just want to get it done fast, optional stuff be damned.

That sounds like the solution to me actually. Maybe instead of stuff that's one and done, either give the dungeon random elements on each entry to force people to have to figure things out every time or... add buffs to the optional paths.

The second one could be interesting. Imagine if optional paths in dungeons could give you buffs that could speed up the dungeon somehow. It would actually be worth it and you'd have a decision to make each dungeon. Do you just go through it in the most straight forward braindead way or do you try your best to clear as fast as possible.

[Striker44]

But then you could say that it's SE's fault for not putting anything interesting in the optional paths that motivates people to deviate.

Except they've already done that, and we've responded in the same way. Extra gear in Haukke Manor from using additional keys to open more rooms. Upgraded drops in the second part of Cutter's Cry from killing all the mobs in a room before opening the chests. None of it mattered. (Heck, in that second part of Cutter's Cry, groups used to kill one pack and move on...now we don't even bother doing that and just run straight to the portals to the next rooms.) Simply put, it's likely impossible to find something "suitably" rewarding that the playerbase in general will spend that extra time. It's not SE's fault. At all.

[Shurrikhan]

Actually, try going back and reading old WoW dev interviews. Players preferring only the most optimal path through a dungeon is exactly why they stopped creating the Sunken Temples, Maraudons and Blackrock Depths.

They stopped creating multi-path dungeons? Is that why 75% of dungeons even in this latest expansion are... multi-path dungeons?

(Heck, in that second part of Cutter's Cry, groups used to kill one pack and move on...now we don't even bother doing that and just run straight to the portals to the next rooms.)

Probably because they removed all experience gains from killing dungeon mobs, further skewing reward per minute away from side-paths, since those mobs aren't required to reach the next boss (the only things that give exp in dungeons now)?

Simply put, it's likely impossible to find something "suitably" rewarding that the playerbase in general will spend that extra time. It's not SE's fault. At all.

And our proof of this is... rewards that were painfully lackluster in their own time, do not scale (unlike tomes or experience), and are gated by mobs with uniquely zero reward directly or indirectly?

[Striker44]

And our proof of this is... rewards that were painfully lackluster in their own time, do not scale (unlike tomes or experience), and are gated by mobs with uniquely zero reward directly or indirectly?

And your suggestion in its place was? Oh, right, nothing, because you realize my point still 100% stands that it is likely impossible to find something in a dungeon reward that would have staying power in encouraging people to explore non-linear paths. Dungeon gear is actually quite good for someone leveling, by the way, and even moreso back in the ARR days when leveling was slower. It still didn't stop us (the playerbase) from ignoring it and just making dungeons linear.