IGN FF16 review is almost like a critique of FF14's own issues

[R041]

I would have to disagree with some points made here, especially the FF stuff. Without the iconic well....eikons and aether and crystals then the story wouldnt really work.

Remember, how come its completely ignored how the most popular game in the franchise....that being FFVII which arguably has more merit to be the less of an FF game is being argued as a "true FF" game than the more fantasy elements of FFXVI? You can seriously try to argue this point. What? Is it because of how its gameplay is still the same as the other games?

Now I agree that the solo character experience with only playing as Clive is very jarring in a series rooted in playing a cast of characters and its not a design choice I wouldve taken. But everything else about it such as your abilities, limit breaks, skill system is still intact with what came before.

I will also somewhat agree with the loot system being uninteresting but the numerous crafting materials you get from shinies and chests contributes to your gear upgrades which at least in spirit it serves with character progression.

Also people who argue about the 5gil drops ooooooooh boy let me tell you about a little game called FF2 where most of the treasure is littered with trash just like that. How about try finding only 1 gil in a treasure chest in that game!!!

Yeah know your series history my man.

Yeah I'm not talking about the actual story/setting FF stuff. Sorry what I said was super broad, what I mean is with how the crafting and loot works - Sometimes I feel like it'd be better off just not providing that as a game system because a weak version is worse than no version. Me finding 2gil over and over is worse than me finding no gil. You know? And crafting having almost no value is worse than no crafting.

It's got FF. The Eikon stuff totally works, the story and setting is great, I've been saying it's great and FF as fuck. I think it could've been done with party members instead of your main character having it all. BUT - I also understand from a story perspective, it'd get real weird and they couldn't.. Harm your party. But that's also kind of FF. I don't know, THAT part is a super grey area and it'd suck to lose an Eikon element because a party member died.

Talking about FFVII, we're just bringing up setting, and you know I ain't talking about that. It IS super refreshing to have a MEDIEVAL FF again. And we know that's not super consistent, that all went out the window starting from VI, which we should be thankful for. Or we may as well be Dragon Quest.

DON'T WHATABOUTISM FF2, yeah there are way worse systems. Doesn't mean I can't have feedback and criticisms.

"Yeah know your series history my man." - You're so confidently condescending without understanding my feedback. Bad loot isn't an FF staple just because there are a few in the series that have bad loot. FF games thrive because they take what worked every iteration and push it forward, typically leaving behind worse systems. Not bring them back.

I don't know how far into XVI you are, it kinda sounds like you're not very far. 95% of the materials you get are worthless and sit in your inventory as junk. I have 400 Blood Hide, 500 Wyrrite, 200 Steelsilk, 400 Sharp Fang, 500 Magicked Ash, for what? Is this just all sell fodder? You immediately get the materials you need to craft the best weapon from beating a boss. Then any upgrade after that is a quick +5. Not 5%, +5. Coming from 200, a +5 does nothing, and +5hp when you have 2k means nothing. Especially considering I 1 shot almost all creatures anyway, I don't even bother with +5 upgrades.

Anyway - You can enjoy the game, and I believe a lot of people are fully engrossed and having a great time. Don't get so defensive folks. It's just feedback. lol

Even with these flaws, it's still probably in my top 5 FFs.

[TomsYoungerBro]

Nah, those side-quests with substance that you're talking about are a dime a dozen. It ain't like that. Almost all of them are Gil Bug, 20 Crafting Mats of garbage. Are you playing this game? No? Then don't act like you know what you're talking about. https://www.powerpyx.com/final-fanta...-quests-guide/

Reward: 5 XP, 1 Meteorite, 1 Gil Bug
Reward: 5 XP, 500 Gil, 10 Wyrrite
Reward: 18 XP, 10 Valley Madder, 20 Sharp Fang, 30 Bloody Hide
Reward: 20 XP, 100 AP, 1 Gil Bug
Reward: 18 XP, 10 Sharp Fang, 5 Bloody Hide
Reward: 20 XP, 100 AP, 10 Magicked Ash, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 18 XP, 1000 Gil, 10 Wyrrite, 10 Magicked Ash
Reward: 20 XP, 1000 Gil, 10 Wyrrite, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 20 XP, 20 Wyrrite, 10 Sharp Fang
Reward: 20 XP, 30 Wyrrite, 30 Sharp Fang, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 15 XP, 1 Gil Bug
Reward: 15 XP, 10 Sharp Fang, 1 Black Blood
Reward: 20 XP, 10 Wyrrite, 5 Steelsilk
Reward: 18 XP, 1000 Gil, 20 Steelsik, 20 Bloody Hide
Reward: 20 XP, 1100 Gil, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 18 XP, 1000 Gil, 25 Magicked Ash
Reward: 20 XP, 150 AP, 30 Magicked Ash
Reward: 18 XP, 20 Magicked Ash

I agree with the sidequest issue. 16 does have the equivalent of 14's "Blue" sidequests in that they are quests with meaningful rewards, but the large majority are normal sidequests that give essentially nothing like 14's normal sidequests. 16 I guess does do a little better with them at least giving rep which works towards rewards, but they still are not worth it.

and I never need to craft because I always somehow have the best gear after finishing story.

This is just not true though. The best gear and weapon come from doing specific "Blue" sidequests and gathering correct materials. If you do nothing but MSQ, you will not have the best possible gear in the end.

[Hanayumi]

A thrilling story of a world and its inhabitants facing a world ending event with the all too familar bestiary, spellcraft, and gods, FFXVI is certainly just as a Final Fantasy. Now as an rpg, definitely not, there are pretty much just 2 aspects that change the functionality of your character, your Eikon abilities and what you equip for your 3 rings, thats about it... Now does this make FFXVI a bad game, no, far from it is an awesome story driven action game with a very detailed world and lore and a very fun combat system, that can be simple or insanely combo heavy. In the end your personal preference being left out of a game does NOT make the game bad, its just means its likely not a game for you and FFXVI is solidly not going everyones Final Fantasy.

[R041]

I agree with the sidequest issue. 16 does have the equivalent of 14's "Blue" sidequests in that they are quests with meaningful rewards, but the large majority are normal sidequests that give essentially nothing like 14's normal sidequests. 16 I guess does do a little better with them at least giving rep which works towards rewards, but they still are not worth it.


This is just not true though. The best gear and weapon come from doing specific "Blue" sidequests and gathering correct materials. If you do nothing but MSQ, you will not have the best possible gear in the end.

Yeah I misspoke and wasn't clear - It's not always the BEST. But the problem is you know you're getting something way better if you just do MSQ consistently, and in Normal Mode nothing survives longer than a second so why bother with min-maxing that +5 dmg +5hp. It's kinda like doing FFXIV leveling dungeons. You never really need the gear, you get basically the best gear from just doing MSQ, so stopping to upgrade every chance you get makes no sense, and it's not like you glam armor. Especially when it's all easy anyway. lol

This might be different for 'Final Fantasy Mode', or the mode after. But currently it's not worth the time or effort.

A thrilling story of a world and its inhabitants facing a world ending event with the all too familar bestiary, spellcraft, and gods, FFXVI is certainly just as a Final Fantasy. Now as an rpg, definitely not, there are pretty much just 2 aspects that change the functionality of your character, your Eikon abilities and what you equip for your 3 rings, thats about it... Now does this make FFXVI a bad game, no, far from it is an awesome story driven action game with a very detailed world and lore and a very fun combat system, that can be simple or insanely combo heavy. In the end your personal preference being left out of a game does NOT make the game bad, its just means its likely not a game for you and FFXVI is solidly not going everyones Final Fantasy.

Yeah I by no means would say it's a bad Final Fantasy. I'm just being nitpicky.

My complaints basically boil down to..

The game teaches me to not care about the nuanced systems like crafting / loot / gil / combos.


Combos are interesting, because it's such an integral system in the combat, but is completely overridden by them giving you full Eikon energy on everything every fight you start. It's like starting every fight in Final Fantasy with a free Ifrit Summon that only takes 1 second to cast, and 1 shots all mobs except for the fat one. If they made you work for this energy, and it was expended for every Eikon ability you did, that'd be way better to me personally. Do combos to build up Eikon Energy, then expend 3 bars on 3 abilities. Then combo it out again. You know?

That's just the problem, they put a lot of effort into a lot of things, and it shows. But they diminish themselves as fun and engaging systems so easily by making weird balance decisions.

Whatever team's in charge of 'balance' from an engaging gameplay perspective, needs to just stop please. Let someone else give it a try. The things that are cheap shouldn't be cheap, the things that are expensive shouldn't be expensive, they should be challenges. The things that are drawn out shouldn't be drawn out. I shouldn't get all the cool Eikon gear for free, but the cheap trash armor grinded. Million gil from MSQ, but 100gil from spending an hour in an open zone. Makes no sense. Like I said, it's all flip flopped and whack.

[Rufalus]

N It's Easy Mode, Easy Mode with Easy Rings, and Easiest Mode, Easiest Mode with Easy Rings

They take an average of what gamers wants. It wants to simultaneously be for action gamers who don't like command-based strategy, and for the old timer Final Fantasy players who are not comfortable with the pace of action games. It wants the lowest barrier for entry and to appeal to both western and eastern tastes.

Gaming was good when it was less democratized. When there wasn't such a big corporate structure and targets of X millions of sales. Some of those old designers just tried to make the ultimate game for their own personal tastes with little regard to how they might be received overseas, if localisation even happened.

In doing so we got some wonderfully weird and unique games that added to the fabric of gaming culture. They are now working at a scale where they cannot afford for any mainline FF to be a failure so it's built to mitigate risk. Quite a safe and bland game (apart from over-the-top cutscenes).

[Lauront]

You forgot FFVII:R exists and is pretty highly praised.. Itemization, Equipment, Party Synergy.. Except for the time ghosts. Fuck those guys. Combat is phenomenal and should be new gold standard.

I'd add SoP. I've enjoyed that game's combat system a lot too. Both were neglected when XVI was on its "first true action RPG" marketing push. Of course you can caveat that "...only the mainline series", but 7R is still really difficult to ignore in that context and I think it had a better system than XVI's. I really dislike the long stagger timers in XVI. Overall I agree with your sentiment on it. It's good, but it is being over-hyped, and there's small changes they could've made to make it even better. The trash is, by and large, so bad it may as well not exist. I'd be more understanding if the hard mode was available from the outset, assuming it addresses it.

They take an average of what gamers wants. It wants to simultaneously be for action gamers who don't like command-based strategy, and for the old timer Final Fantasy players who are not comfortable with the pace of action games. It wants the lowest barrier for entry and to appeal to both western and eastern tastes.

Gaming was good when it was less democratized. When there wasn't such a big corporate structure and targets of X millions of sales. Some of those old designers just tried to make the ultimate game for their own personal tastes with little regard to how they might be received overseas, if localisation even happened.

In doing so we got some wonderfully weird and unique games that added to the fabric of gaming culture. They are now working at a scale where they cannot afford for any mainline FF to be a failure so it's built to mitigate risk. Quite a safe and bland game (apart from over-the-top cutscenes).

That's the distinctive impression I get, too. Feels like design by the numbers. You can tell which games/series it's taking inspiration from (at least I can from the ones familiar to me) and blending together. It's not a bad game, by any means, and I am enjoying the grittier vibe of the plot (could've been a bit bolder, but it's fine for what it is), but even if I neglect the combat system, the story elements themselves feel a bit under-developed. Still, it does excel when it comes to cinematography and music. The Bahamut fight, for example, was really memorable.

[R041]

The more I think about it, the more I really wish Eikon energy wasn't just given to you at the start of every fight. It feels way too easy, and wrong to be able to just insta-nuke everything as soon as the fight starts. You should have to work for those abilities in the middle of your combos, but you just kinda blast them all off like they're OP oGCDs.

It doesn't feel right in an action game like this. It makes me unreasonably salty knowing that 1 thing would change so much of the pacing in the game and story. You wind me up to get mad at an enemy because they do unspeakable things, and then I don't even get to toy with them. They just disappear in an instant.

Then anything with Stagger just stays around for longer than they should. There's really no middle ground in this game. It either dies in 1 second, or takes 5 minutes. You never get to juggle anything or do sick combos because your combos are limited on Stagger enemies, and the ones you CAN juggle are just gone in an instant.

Also people keep saying "Yeah FF games are supposed to be easy" - Yes, easy. Like tactically easy. But not killing everything instantly. It's like playing all FF games on 5x Fast Forward. It messes up the whole pacing of the game and story. It feels weird.

An example people keep bringing up is "Pokemon is just as easy, it's the same thing" - No, Pokemon is a simple game, but it doesn't give you a pokemon that 1 shots everything without grinding from the start. That's how I feel here. Unreasonably OP unless I'm fighting a Hunt or Dragoon or some shit.

I know I'm whining at this point, but ugh. lol

[TheDecay]

Also people who argue about the 5gil drops ooooooooh boy let me tell you about a little game called FF2 where most of the treasure is littered with trash just like that. How about try finding only 1 gil in a treasure chest in that game!!!

Yeah know your series history my man.

Your argument is literally to use FF2, which is widely regarded as the literal second-worst or worst entry among main numbered titles, as an example and something FF16 should aspire to.

https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/6530...ousands-of-you

I'm beginning to wonder whether you intend to discuss anything in good faith here.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Your argument is literally to use FF2, which is widely regarded as the literal second-worst or worst entry among main numbered titles, as an example and something FF16 should aspire to.

https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/6530...ousands-of-you

I'm beginning to wonder whether you intend to discuss anything in good faith here.

Yeah? I wasnt talking about whether FF2 is the worst now was I? Or are you going to further twist the narrative here.

Also why the hell are you showing me this rank list of the best FF games?

[Hanayumi]

After going through a healthy portion of NG+ im genuinely surprised how much more RPG aspects reside in it vs the base game. Gearing especially gets tuned up a lot more, more gear options, higher upgrades, including the option to upgrade your accessories now, more materials especially for newer hunts, farming materials, farming levels, and a lot more difficult challenge modes. Ngl im thinking some mode variation of this NG+ of this should really be added as an option to start off with come PC release...