P10S is easily the worst designed fight in the history of FFXIV since ARR

[Karshan]

Actually this is a very good fight, what is ill designed to me is its positionning in the tier. P10S and P11S should be swapped (let's face it P11 is more of a joke than P10)

[Lyth]

Aside from the lack of positionals, this is probably one of the better Savage fights that they've put out, and the person who designed it should be commended for taking some risks. The actual dps check itself was incredibly soft, even in the first week, and it's really a mechanics check more than anything else. The snapshots are not difficult even at high latency, but what catches people out is a failure to think one mechanic ahead of the one that they are currently on. Bonds goes out about 30 seconds in advance and the activation is debuff based rather than animation based, so there's absolutely nothing reactive about this fight if you understand it.

This has been an exceptional tier. And if the mechanics check on P10S was gated a bit too high, well... let's just say that it significantly improved the quality of the PF experience on the latter two fights.

[ServerCollaps]

It's a bad fight because it exploits the weaknesses of SE's servers in the pandaemonic bonds mechanics.

Whenever you have to locate another person to stack with or spread away from in tight spaces, as the game requires, its a total crapshoot. This game pings player locations unbelievably slowly, and when the game is restricting your positioning and pushing you around it can be hit or miss whether the game registers your movement or not.

The fight wasn't fun to prog. It wasn't fun to clear. It's not fun to reclear and it won't be fun to farm. It just sucks and whoever made the fight should probably think twice before trying again.

eh, you have ages to preposition yourself for literally everything. The only annoying part is breaking the tethers sometimes, but anything else is easy avoidable

[AlaineIV]

Definitely not just a them problem. I haven't raided this tier, but I have noticed it in older fights that a combination of server latency and weird snapshots can absolutely screw you over. It's not my internet connection, either. My ping usually sits at around 15 to 25 and yet, there have been countless times where I ate a mechanic even though, on my screen, I had *very* clearly dodged it and timed said dodge correctly. Thankfully most of those instances didn't outright kill me, but it still sucks. My entire static complained of the same thing and so does every single raider I know who is raiding this tier.

You need to learn about cast vs animation damage if you don't under stand why you are dying out side time dodges. With that being said you with Daemonic Bonds as soon as the timer wheres off you are snap shotted in that position. I always run when the debuff falls off and never kill the person next to me.

[Post]

Yo, P10s slaps!

I really enjoy it, especially because it's managed to put in some inventive new ideas that have never been used before, but also because it deals a lot of damage and is a huge enough arena that range is something healers actually have to consider slightly.

I'm looking forward to whatever the mind behind p10s (and all the Another Sil'dihn Subterrain fights) is cooking up next. I love when fights are creative because we only get 4 of them per 8 months anyways. What's the rush in completing them?

I actually think the worst designed fight in the history of FFXIV since ARR is the Brachiosaur in the old Diadem. It would alternate spamming Meteor for 90% of everyone's max HP and "Discord" or something, which would apply a minute long, unremovable strong paralysis to everyone in like 50y, even those flying and not fighting it.

Talk about some proper old mmo style bullshit.

In ARR, I think that honor goes to the first boss of Tam-Tara hard mode, Levianne or whoever her name is. She requires a team (at level, mind, you can probably just burst her down at ilvl 130) to drop one of her aoes directly on adds she summons. Any direct action to an add causes it to explode in the whole party and applying a stacking vulnerability, and they come in such numbers that it will wipe the party on the second wave if they don't figure it out. Effectively, the fight doesn't give you an opportunity to learn the mechanic fairly and punishes DPS and tanks for doing what their supposed to do usually: DPS and tank. It also requires players to intentionally bomb their healer with an AoE. They revisited this idea in o5, a fight which does it much better by making the adds intangible and the aoe you aim at them avoidable. Coincidentally, that fight also slaps.

It rules when they introduce new ideas and then refine them in later fights. I loved to see them build on the web stuff they added back in Void Ark, and I love that they let us build or potentially screw ourselves over WHILE FIGHTING THE BOSS, something many "final floors" could learn from. Stupid boring High Concept.

[ElysiumDragon]

From what I've seen, virtually every difficult fight this expansion has basically been "healers git gud", and if your healers are bad, it's going to be a hellish experience.

[Post]

It doesn't help that they're not teaching healers to get good with 95% of the content, and that healer is mostly incredibly boring if you and your team ARE good.

Like, I get that they want the game and role itself to be accessible for everyone, but if they want to do that they should be more cognizant of the jumps in the difficulty curve that are widening. There's fewer dungeons and trials and they're easier on the whole to heal poorly, especially because most tanks can pinch hit as a healer after like 78.

DPS by contrast always have an incentive to improve that's felt: the duty goes way faster. Those binary healer checks are completely up to the developers to impose in a smoothe way from 1 thru 90. ARR dungeons and fates had attacks that would deal 100% of your tank's hp or your HP with a completely un-ground-telegraphed attacks; EW dungeon bosses are almost always telegraphed, even if late, and anyways dealing an amount of damage that is more than able to be covered just by a couple of your oGCD tools, even without good planning.

When suddenly the game says Harrowing Hell or more than 1 tankbuster/auto attack per minute, the healers taught that DPS is the most important thing or that they should always be able to dps without a loss take a little longer to adapt. And the stakes are a bit higher in a 10 min raid fight than a 3 minute dungeon one.

[Voryn]

I find P10S really fun as well (did it as tank), but agree that it's not appropriate for a second floor.

The body checks are kind of crazy but it's not a super unique fight in that regard. I don't think this fight would stick out as much if it were a third or fourth floor.

[Colt47]

Title kinda says it all. We need to be ranting about this fight design, because it demands far too much for a second turn in a raid tier.

The positioning is insanely picky with near zero recovery available. Why are we demanding final fight mechanics in the second turn?

Please do not allow whoever designed this fight to return and design another. No one wants it or needs it. It is a failure of a fight. I'm surprised that it made it past QA.

I agree with you on it but it's not the fight alone that is causing the problem. This fight design would have been fine back in Shadowbringers because in that situation we had more survivability. In Endwalker we lost a lot in that regard because they pushed mitigation being a necessity even with improving gear. Back at min iLvL in Shadowbringers it was still necessary, just that people who were a little less optimal could expect to get better results when their gear got better.

With the new design the only option to make the fight easier with gear is to out dps the fight to remove a phase. So with p10s this all multiplies out into being a fight that should be doable, but ends up being worse than the final two because of one mess up ending the group.

Spent something upwards of 20+ hours now over a week with trying to clear it after seeing enrage and being able to perform literally every mechanic before and at HH perfectly, and there are so many people unable to do mechanics to the consistency needed that it drags the whole thing down. It's probably the least PF friendly savage fight in the game that they have released and I'd rank this higher than p3s with the color blindness issue and orange everywhere. p3s had about four points of total wipe. p10s almost every phase can result in a total wipe past the first three or four.

[Arohk]

Spent something upwards of 20+ hours now over a week with trying to clear it after seeing enrage and being able to perform literally every mechanic before and at HH perfectly, and there are so many people unable to do mechanics to the consistency needed that it drags the whole thing down. It's probably the least PF friendly savage fight in the game that they have released and I'd rank this higher than p3s with the color blindness issue and orange everywhere. p3s had about four points of total wipe. p10s almost every phase can result in a total wipe past the first three or four.

If you think P10 is bad, good luck in P12. I have never seen a worse mechanic than Caloric Theory, it is the pinnacle of bullshit mechanics.