Botting should be seperated from other add ons by SE even more

[myssy]

Why is botting community allowed to be so much presented in some of the FFXIV communities? I have also played wow and used add ons in that game and feel like I can see their value as customising your experience and offering more options for accecibility tools.

I feel like two biggest differences for me has been that in wow communities such as reddit, facebook groups and official forums you are not allowed to advertise botting add ons. I don’t usually see botting add ons or hear about them in communities unless if it’s in a disencouraging way such as someone telling that they are bad or telling stories about people getting caught using them. I have never seen any botting tools in biggest sites where you can download add ons or weak auras. Most of the community seems to really disapprove using them and it often shows in the community too.

I think that is same in FFXIV community most people are against botting but for some reason I have seen people post links to pages where you can download botting tools openly and with way too little backslash from moderation team or members of the community.

Botting is there but it should not be advertised and we as a community should separate it more for other add ons. There is a huge difference between using a viera hat mod or botting.
Why can’t SE do more to break those add ons that allow you to bot, they are hardly a secret in the community and I’m sure SE can find them.

Even in wow every once in a while there comes along and add on or weak aura that Blizzard feels like they don’t wan’t people to use and they take it down. Last case that I know was during Dragonflight’s season 1. There was this dungeon where you had to pick up clues from npc’s and figure out the “villain” and someone came up with weak aura that would automatically select a right one and Blizzard broke it down.

I understand that no one can take botts out but in a way it feels worse that in FFXIV there seems to be a lot more understanding about someone botting crafting or gathering and many of those players don’t even seem to be scared about losing their accounts or trying to even hide it too much and have heard often that all you need to do is just go in to an apartment and craft there.

Having botting community out and open hurts add on community too much and makes people think that it’s ok to bot because they feel like everyone else is doing it too or that they have to do it in order to stay competitive which obviously is not true. This community has gone past and beond add ons should not be used phase and we really need to seperate them.

[Arohk]

Why can’t SE do more to break those add ons that allow you to bot, they are hardly a secret in the community and I’m sure SE can find them.

You know, bots (for the most part) only simulate your keyboard and or mouse imputs.

[myssy]

You know, bots (for the most part) only simulate your keyboard and or mouse imputs.

Yeah that's always good to remeber that botting is not some super thechnical things that only small portion of the player base could do. I feel like it's way too often associated with rmt but there are a lot of everyday ffxiv players who bot for comfort and that scares me a lot and how those people feel so safe with their decicion to bot and how open they are about it.

Botting means automating your gameplay and some add ons really do that. It doesn't matter what you use to bot. Botting add ons should never be advertised in the community or even worse sharing links to them.

[Dzian]

I understand that no one can take botts out but in a way it feels worse that in FFXIV there seems to be a lot more understanding about someone botting crafting or gathering and many of those players don’t even seem to be scared about losing their accounts or trying to even hide it too much and have heard often that all you need to do is just go in to an apartment and craft there.

It's a question of policing or enforcing the rules. While you technically can't totally eliminate the issue, you can do a hell of a lot to combat / prevent it. The trouble is SE hasn't / doesn't.

For example, If a million players use bots and 10,000 got banned this month. And another 10,000 got caught and banned next month and another 10,000 got caught and banned the month after that. And so on and so on.

You would quickly make massive progress in dealing with the problem. Because suddenly the risk of being caught and banned is very real and the deterrent factor kicks in...

So 6 months later you've banned 60,000 of those million botters. But possibly reduced the amount of botters by 600,000 as more players stop using them because they don't want to be one of next months 10,000 bans.... and if they kept that trend up it wouldn't take long to virtually eliminate the problem.

XIVs problems is they don't enforce the rules and that means the botting problem gets worse because everyone sees a million players using bots and getting away with it. And suddenly that million becomes 2 million. Then 3 4...

It's entirely policing. It's just as possible to hack or cheat or bot in any game you can think of. Yet some games the issue is almost non existent. Other games its prolific and rampant. The only difference is whether or not devs enforce their rules.

[UkcsAlias]

If a million players use bots and 10,000 got banned this month. And another 10,000 got caught and banned next month and another 10,000 got caught and banned the month after that. And so on and so on.

Dont forget that some bots are used as a relay to get around linkshell limitations. Especialy for S ranks notification linkshells are popular. Which technicaly could have been handled through a single linkshell (although 1 person will still be botting there to send the info). But the gains are mostly towards those that are in the linkshell and not the botter him/herself.

Banning the relayer in that case is a bit unfair since the other people in that same linkshell wont face anything here. And dont forget that this whole system is only made because SE didnt bother to supply that information ingame.
And before you think: discord overlay messages will cover it... well,.. i cannot see those notifications ingame, even though i have turned them on. Even windows notifications dont show... If even this basic workaround doesnt work, those linkshells are worthy to join. I would consider it quite unfair if such botters get banned as they themselve dont gain anything. They take a risk themselve, while the gains go towards others.

But yeah, thats part of policing. Policies can make an exception to these cases. But its not as simple (as unfair advantage is still applied: those in the linkshell have an advantage towards those who arent. It must be very explicit here). Best would obviously be a fully ingame solution. And it goes further, as what is 'using' here? is that having the bot installed, or using the messages sent by the bot?

The problem is mostly detection anyway. The more methods you make for detection, the more ways they find out to get around it. And those chat relays are the ones to suffer the fastest (as there is no profit gained here).

[myssy]

Dont forget that some bots are used as a relay to get around linkshell limitations. Especialy for S ranks notification linkshells are popular. Which technicaly could have been handled through a single linkshell (although 1 person will still be botting there to send the info). But the gains are mostly towards those that are in the linkshell and not the botter him/herself.

Banning the relayer in that case is a bit unfair since the other people in that same linkshell wont face anything here. And dont forget that this whole system is only made because SE didnt bother to supply that information ingame.
And before you think: discord overlay messages will cover it... well,.. i cannot see those notifications ingame, even though i have turned them on. Even windows notifications dont show... If even this basic workaround doesnt work, those linkshells are worthy to join. I would consider it quite unfair if such botters get banned as they themselve dont gain anything. They take a risk themselve, while the gains go towards others.

But yeah, thats part of policing. Policies can make an exception to these cases. But its not as simple (as unfair advantage is still applied: those in the linkshell have an advantage towards those who arent. It must be very explicit here). Best would obviously be a fully ingame solution. And it goes further, as what is 'using' here? is that having the bot installed, or using the messages sent by the bot?

The problem is mostly detection anyway. The more methods you make for detection, the more ways they find out to get around it. And those chat relays are the ones to suffer the fastest (as there is no profit gained here).

That is excatly why all add ons are against toss does not work. We need to reconize differencies between them as a community and so does se. In wow blizzard breaks add ons that are against toss, we are allowed to have open discussions about add ons and community has more clear wiev about what is ok and what is not.