How can we reopen the FF14 subreddit?

[kaizokuj]

Isn't the blackout pretty selfish too? They had multiple options they could have worked on that wouldn't inconvenience others. Reddit has a large amount of useful data on it and right now that data is being held hostage.

When are people going to learn that dragging others into their protests by forcefully inconveniencing them is not going to make them want to support them but rather go against them instead?

A protest that doesn't inconvenience people will never achieve anything, as there is no incentive FOR it to achieve it. What you think MORALS is gonna make a convenient protest work? If morals were a factor, they wouldn't be needing to protest to begin with, grow up.

[Ransu]

A protest that doesn't inconvenience people will never achieve anything, as there is no incentive FOR it to achieve it. What you think MORALS is gonna make a convenient protest work? If morals were a factor, they wouldn't be needing to protest to begin with, grow up.

Doing something that inconveniences others will not make them be on your side.

Also, the reddit protest is beyond idiotic. Its a bunch of freeloaders who don't realize all these API tools utilize reddits resources which costs them money. The days of all these free services on the internet are coming to an end because just like twitter, reddit was never a profitable business.

[PredatoryCatgirl]

A protest that doesn't inconvenience people will never achieve anything, as there is no incentive FOR it to achieve it. What you think MORALS is gonna make a convenient protest work? If morals were a factor, they wouldn't be needing to protest to begin with, grow up.

We've already seen this backfire. Protests that blocked highways created negative sentiment for those protesting, not sympathy for their cause. Yes, I understand what they're going for. I don't care. They're taking their beef with Reddit out on users. This harms the common user more than Reddit. You need to inconvenience the people with the power to change something, and they have no way to do that, so they're just throwing a tantrum until they get their way.

You're removing the resource because they won't let you run it your way? Fine, I'll find a different resource. And I'll keep using it even when yours comes back up, because you've just shown me you're not reliable. Touch grass Reddit mods.

[Eorzean_username]

Doing something that inconveniences others will not make them be on your side.

Yeah that's why nearly all change throughout human history has been accomplished by just asking nicely to the people in power.

Utterly mindless sort of take.

Humans by and large don't care about lofty ideals, they care about what personally benefits their tiny microbial pinhead-sized droplet of day-to-day existence.

If you say, "You should do this, or there will be deleterious long-term consequences", they might at best nod solemnly, if they don't ignore you or throw a tantrum... but deep down inside, they're still wondering, "Okay — but how does it affect me, personally, right now?"

The only way that you accomplish any serious change is with serious pushback; "peaceful protests" are usually just cute photo-ops that people in power absolutely love because it makes everyone feel like they did something without actually requiring anything whatsoever to happen in response.

Then those protests get mythologized and painted as "heroic" by the people who write history, because power structures in human societies would really, reeeeeeeeeeally prefer that everyone view "peaceful resistance" as the ideological ideal, since it means that they don't have to actually do anything, and that anyone upset will throw their tantrum without actually affecting the status quo.

Also, the reddit protest is beyond idiotic. Its a bunch of freeloaders who don't realize all these API tools utilize reddits resources which costs them money.

Completely and totally fails to understand the actual details or nuance of the situation, and basically just eagerly-gargles the twisted PR spew that Steve Huffman is marketing to mentally-vulnerable people who don't bother thinking beyond what a single interview claims as fact... like the recorded Apollo App phone conversation that disproves many of the things that Huffman is claiming publicly.

And "freeloaders"? Really?

Reddit is a corporation whose near-entirety of "product" is volunteers creating and fetching content from somewhere else, and then posting it for free in order to be validated by imaginary approval... while other volunteers act as the understaffed guards in an overcrowded Ecuadorian penitentiary.

Reddit is the freeloader — they have nearly no actual product; it's basically nothing but putting out a plinth, and letting other people exhibit their discoveries and creations.

And it's not even a good plinth; it's a dark-pattern infested plinth that's been steadily degrading in quality for a decade as it attempts to squeeze more and more data and control out of its captured audience.

Now, they're ready to publicly offer up their crappy plinth to investors, and desperately trying to stamp out anything that might blemish how much those investors are willing to offer for it — hence the move to drive users out of superiorly-designed 3rd party apps and off the Reddit website, and funnel them all into Reddit's low-quality proprietary app, where they have absolute control over data, advertising, and monetization (of displaying other people's content).

————————————————————————

Every single time you go, "Oof, I cannot endure the pain of an interruption to my compulsively-conditioned daily app habits", you contribute that much more to the — to drop this month's newest overused, yet accurate, buzzword — "enshittification of the Internet".

And when the Internet ends up as yet another version of the corporate-controlled dystopia trope that every sci-fi future always depicts, the human inability to endure inconveniencing itself for 5 seconds is going to be the true root cause.

Corporations and businesses and leadership can invent all kinds of schemes to squeeze, exploit, and degrade the quality of nearly anything in the name of pleasing investors.

But ultimately, they only succeed at it because so many people are unable to say "No" to their comforts and habits long enough to actually scare anyone, and thus, smug controllers can handily rely on their mountains of psychological data telling them: "Don't worry, the masses will begin to go into withdrawal, and start turning on and attacking the protesters attempting to achieve change, long before they ever successfully take a stand on anything. Do whatever you want."

And if that doesn't work — have no fear, Congress will use arcane laws to force you back to work anyway, and then sell it as "tough but necessary" heroism... because once again, the common man has mercifully escaped the dire threat of inconvenience.

[Ransu]

Yeah that's why nearly all change throughout human history has been accomplished by just asking nicely to the people in power.

Utterly mindless sort of take.

Humans by and large don't care about lofty ideals, they care about what personally benefits their tiny microbial pinhead-sized droplet of day-to-day existence.

If you say, "You should do this, or there will be deleterious long-term consequences", they might at best nod solemnly, if they don't ignore you or throw a tantrum... but deep down inside, they're still wondering, "Okay — but how does it affect me, personally, right now?"

The only way that you accomplish any serious change is with serious pushback; "peaceful protests" are usually just cute photo-ops that people in power absolutely love because it makes everyone feel like they did something without actually requiring anything whatsoever to happen in response.

Then those protests get mythologized and painted as "heroic" by the people who write history, because power structures in human societies would really, reeeeeeeeeeally prefer that everyone view "peaceful resistance" as the ideological ideal, since it means that they don't have to actually do anything, and that anyone upset will throw their tantrum without actually affecting the status quo.


Completely and totally fails to understand the actual details or nuance of the situation, and basically just eagerly-gargles the twisted PR spew that Steve Huffman is marketing to mentally-vulnerable people who don't bother thinking beyond what a single interview claims as fact... like the recorded Apollo App phone conversation that disproves many of the things that Huffman is claiming publicly.

And "freeloaders"? Really?

Reddit is a corporation whose near-entirety of "product" is volunteers creating and fetching content from somewhere else, and then posting it for free in order to be validated by imaginary approval... while other volunteers act as the understaffed guards in an overcrowded Ecuadorian penitentiary.

Reddit is the freeloader — they have nearly no actual product; it's basically nothing but putting out a plinth, and letting other people exhibit their discoveries and creations.

And it's not even a good plinth; it's a dark-pattern infested plinth that's been steadily degrading in quality for a decade as it attempts to squeeze more and more data and control out of its captured audience.

Now, they're ready to publicly offer up their crappy plinth to investors, and desperately trying to stamp out anything that might blemish how much those investors are willing to offer for it — hence the move to drive users out of superiorly-designed 3rd party apps and off the Reddit website, and funnel them all into Reddit's low-quality proprietary app, where they have absolute control over data, advertising, and monetization (of displaying other people's content).

————————————————————————

Every single time you go, "Oof, I cannot endure the pain of an interruption to my compulsively-conditioned daily app habits", you contribute that much more to the — to drop this month's newest overused, yet accurate, buzzword — "enshittification of the Internet".

And when the Internet ends up as yet another version of the corporate-controlled dystopia trope that every sci-fi future always depicts, the human inability to endure inconveniencing itself for 5 seconds is going to be the true root cause.

Corporations and businesses and leadership can invent all kinds of schemes to squeeze, exploit, and degrade the quality of nearly anything in the name of pleasing investors.

But ultimately, they only succeed at it because so many people are unable to say "No" to their comforts and habits long enough to actually scare anyone, and thus, smug controllers can handily rely on their mountains of psychological data telling them: "Don't worry, the masses will begin to go into withdrawal, and start turning on and attacking the protesters attempting to achieve change, long before they ever successfully take a stand on anything. Do whatever you want."

And if that doesn't work — have no fear, Congress will use arcane laws to force you back to work anyway, and then sell it as "tough but necessary" heroism... because once again, the common man has mercifully escaped the dire threat of inconvenience.

Thanks for the good laugh, I needed it.

[Eorzean_username]

Thanks for the good laugh, I needed it.

What you see:

"I laughed at you like a stereotypical schoolyard bully mocking peers who use too many words in their sentences. I have proven my superiority to you by implying derision of your ideas. If I imply that you are inferior to me, I do not have to actually address anything that you say."

What I see:

"I have verified that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about by immediately backing off from a discussion and fleeing with my tail tucked between my legs, since I am incapable of responding with any actual substance. To preserve my fragile ego, I will attempt to make the other person seem stupid for contradicting me."

[AlexiaD]

What you see:

"I laughed at you like a stereotypical schoolyard bully mocking peers who use too many words in their sentences. I have proven my superiority to you by implying derision of your ideas. If I imply that you are inferior to me, I do not have to actually address anything that you say."

What I see:

"I have verified that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about by immediately backing off from a discussion and fleeing with my tail tucked between my legs, since I am incapable of responding with any actual substance. To preserve my fragile ego, I will attempt to make the other person seem stupid for contradicting me."

It's okay it's just Ransu, they never have anything of value to say so they'll just respond in a trollish way.

[NekoMataMata]

snip

There's always this talk about the protest accomplishing anything via hurting reddit's pocket book but it's like you forget the bottom line. In this specific situation this is unnecessary. Given time reddit as a company is going to suffer from the consequences of its actions here. You can just sit back and wait for it to happen.

Why are you so determined to be antagonistic? Do the subreddit moderators feel the need to throw their weight around that much?

It's also pretty ironic that you're sitting here discussing how people's impatience with the reddit blackout is going to cause the internet to enter into an age of corporate-controlled dystopia, when the reality is most people are willing to let nature take its course with reddit and move on. You're the one that's like it's going to be the end of the world, so you're more likely to be addicted to it than the people you're calling out. You just can't handle the thought of the old status quo changing. Most of us will adapt once it's all over, which is why you're the one acting like it's a life or death fight, when it really isn't.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

We've already seen this backfire. Protests that blocked highways created negative sentiment for those protesting, not sympathy for their cause. Yes, I understand what they're going for. I don't care. They're taking their beef with Reddit out on users. This harms the common user more than Reddit. You need to inconvenience the people with the power to change something, and they have no way to do that, so they're just throwing a tantrum until they get their way.

You're removing the resource because they won't let you run it your way? Fine, I'll find a different resource. And I'll keep using it even when yours comes back up, because you've just shown me you're not reliable. Touch grass Reddit mods.

They asked the community first. Overwhelmingly was in support. Of course, if you don't use reddit, you probably didn't answer.



and @Ransu The strike isn't against monetization of the API, the APP creators are willing to pay. Reddit priced them out of competition, thats the issue. They made the costs so exorbitant that no one can pay. Someone did the math and Reddit just took their yearly revenue and divided it by number of total Monthly users. It comes to a cost of $0.12 per user, and they are charging $2.50 per user for the API calls.

[Meltemi]

They asked the community first. Overwhelmingly was in support. Of course, if you don't use reddit, you probably didn't answer.

Indeed. It is also worth adding that this is an ongoing process; the next vote on whether the blackout will continue is June 19, and if it is decided that the blackout will continue, votes will also continue until either the API pricing is made reasonable or the local denizens yield. This wasn't decided by a handful of mods, but rather is a policy that had popular consensus among the subreddit users - the so-called "common users" in that quote.