Positivity!

[Iscah]

But why does Jack feel the need to tell other individuals to quit the game? He's not spreading positivity by doing that, he's attempting to remove negativity.

Because said individual has made it clear that they are not enjoying the game. It is normal and healthy to stop doing a completely optional activity that you are not enjoying.

And again, people don't try to "remove negativity" as soon as someone mentions they dislike a single thing about the game. It's when the one person goes on for a prolonged time and constantly dislikes major parts of the game, calling for it to be changed over something that is subjective personal taste and not an inherently poor design.

Not all complaints are equal. If someone joins a basketball club and then constantly talks about how the nets should be lower and larger and they should be allowed to kick the ball, it's not going to take long for the rest of the team to direct him to the soccer club.

I also think there's a conflation going on in this discussion between having positive opinions and being a positive participant in the forum, and vice versa. Someone can hold negative opinions but just present them calmly as part of the discussion – "I don't like it, I would prefer XYZ" – and without insulting people who think differently.

Bob might hold "a positive opinion" on one part of the game but he's acting negatively towards anyone who disagrees with him.

Nah, Jack is usually Bob. A toxic casual constantly, constantly defending the stupidification and lobotomization of job and encounter design, sneering that this game's spiral downward into what it is now is akshully a good thing, and if you don't like it then git out.

No, they're totally different.

Bob is saying "if you don't like what I like, you have bad taste."

Jack is saying "by your own words, you don't like this thing. Why not find a different thing?"

Also, I don't think Bob even counts as a "positive poster" (as if you can really divide people that simply) – he's a player of the game who likes Island Sanctuary but can't comprehend that people just might like different things to him and that's okay.

Likewise, Jack doesn't necessarily like every aspect of the game – maybe he dislikes IS and savage but enjoys the story and PVP. He's not even saying anything positive OR negative about the game by suggesting that this person who seems to derive no enjoyment from any part of the game could be happier somewhere else.

The forum is for seeking input from players of the game, but there's a basic... expectation? assumption? natural way of approaching your leisure time? that people play the game because they like at least some aspects of it as it currently is, not only if they can convince the devs to retool it into a different game entirely.

[Boblawblah]

Also, I don't think Bob even counts as a "positive poster" (as if you can really divide people that simply) – he's a player of the game who likes Island Sanctuary but can't comprehend that people just might like different things to him and that's okay.

[Aravell]

Because said individual has made it clear that they are not enjoying the game. It is normal and healthy to stop doing a completely optional activity that you are not enjoying.

And again, people don't try to "remove negativity" as soon as someone mentions they dislike a single thing about the game. It's when the one person goes on for a prolonged time and constantly dislikes major parts of the game, calling for it to be changed over something that is subjective personal taste and not an inherently poor design.

Not all complaints are equal. If someone joins a basketball club and then constantly talks about how the nets should be lower and larger and they should be allowed to kick the ball, it's not going to take long for the rest of the team to direct him to the soccer club.

I also think there's a conflation going on in this discussion between having positive opinions and being a positive participant in the forum, and vice versa. Someone can hold negative opinions but just present them calmly as part of the discussion – "I don't like it, I would prefer XYZ" – and without insulting people who think differently.

Bob might hold "a positive opinion" on one part of the game but he's acting negatively towards anyone who disagrees with him.

I don't think your comparison quite works the same way, if someone joins a basketball club and constantly complains, they'll be shown the door because everyone is forced to listen to them. We are not forced in any way to read negative feedback on the forums. We can both agree that, in that example given, Bob is not a very nice person since he's dismissive to an entire subset of players. But I think Jack is also a jerk, because he's purposely chasing someone through multiple threads, reading all their negative feedback and then trying to tell them to quit.

I personally don't think there's any justification in telling someone to quit if they're not harming anyone, Jack may think he's doing a nice thing, but he's not. No one should be chased out like that, if people have negative feedback but are content to continue playing, there's no good reason to chase them out if that's all they're doing. If someone is trolling or attacking people directly, then yes, show them the door. But other than that, telling someone to quit is just trying to gatekeep them out from the game because they're not being positive enough.

[Iscah]

But I think Jack is also a jerk, because he's purposely chasing someone through multiple threads, reading all their negative feedback and then trying to tell them to quit.

This is a forum. The intent of a forum is that everyone uses the same spaces and comments on what other people say, or we're all just talking into the void.

The person who complains about everything is not a hypothetical – they were here, complaining about everything at every opportunity, starting thread after thread and inserting their opinion into everyone else's discussions. You could not simply ignore it, and you certainly didn't need to be "chasing them through multiple threads" to repeatedly encounter them or (even if you blocked them) people arguing with them so you'd see it all anyway.

It's not just about "not being positive enough" in their personal opinion, but the constant insistence that they are right and the game is objectively wrong, and the players who like it how it is are also wrong and dragging the game down. It's constantly berating people for being here trying to enjoy a thing in the space designated for talking about it.

The average person who doesn't like a thing doesn't need to be "gatekept" out of a forum for fans of the thing, because they will have already kept themself away because they're not a fan and don't want to spend their time discussing a thing they are not a fan of.

[Ranaku]

This is a forum. The intent of a forum is that everyone uses the same spaces and comments on what other people say, or we're all just talking into the void.

The person who complains about everything is not a hypothetical – they were here, complaining about everything at every opportunity, starting thread after thread and inserting their opinion into everyone else's discussions. You could not simply ignore it, and you certainly didn't need to be "chasing them through multiple threads" to repeatedly encounter them or (even if you blocked them) people arguing with them so you'd see it all anyway.

It's not just about "not being positive enough" in their personal opinion, but the constant insistence that they are right and the game is objectively wrong, and the players who like it how it is are also wrong and dragging the game down. It's constantly berating people for being here trying to enjoy a thing in the space designated for talking about it.

The average person who doesn't like a thing doesn't need to be "gatekept" out of a forum for fans of the thing, because they will have already kept themself away because they're not a fan and don't want to spend their time discussing a thing they are not a fan of.

That may be the intent of normal forums but the XIV forums are 90% titanmen talking with himself and some people joining in.