Thread: Endwalker is the lowest point of this game since 1.0

Originally Posted by fulminating

I think it’s probably HW>ARR>=SHB>STB>EW
The tonal shift around level 61-63 is something the story just didn’t recover from. It’s also not fun just showing up and almost being guaranteed a clear. The stratification of content is not particularly healthy in my eyes.

Thing is I only feel HW and ARR stuff was considered "hard" due to lack of player experience with the game. 6+ years in normal content probably won't feel as crazy to said person/people. There's also the savage debate ofc but thas for a different camp than myself these days.
EW to me has hit a nice sweet spot. You aren't steamrolling
everything but you also aren't full wiping often either. I can at least say (in my experience ofc) EWs set of raids have killed more than most, even to this day. Shoot p12 is still a bit of a block for me at some parts idk what it is xD
But I'd say if strat is what you're after the game clearly puts out where you'll get it from. Savage, Unreal, Ultimate.

As for the tonal shift that's for the better imo. Many things in ARR and even some aspects of HW are very one dimensional. Not something I particularly care for and that pivot was smart. The pivot has only helped make the game more n more successful so I couldn't objectively call it bad even if I wanted

Originally Posted by fulminating

That is a factor too of course, but I think the simplified rotations and their bloated potencies have not really been of benefit, particularly in old content. Storm’s eye for example was 270 potency and by 5.5 hit 420. Currently it’s sitting at 440 caster potency which is greater still I think, but could have that backwards. It just doesn’t seem to have any benefit to me, particularly for those who want to dip their toes into higher end content. The extreme step up in difficulty and personal responsibility from none to some in a lot of cases is quite stark. I find the normal & alliance raids most fun on day 1, the former before everyone has a chance to outgear and do it without thinking.


Funnily enough that’s how I’d have described the more recent entries, everything collapsing in under the weight of friendship and saccharine veneer. The more* grounded world before it became a theme park for the centre of the universe. Yeah the ff3 raids were in arr, but I like ff3.

That's fair. I think old content really can't be helped when it comes to that. Tbf in that respect you have 2 years to do it while it's relevant. Generally most will be unsyncing those though some do min ilvl (which is quite fun, should do some if you haven't yet).
Alliance week 1 I'd say is the best yeah. Having that room for error and seeing possible alliance wipes is fun. Naturally that luster will be lost as time goes on.

Not that second portion I find interesting. I can't point to poeple like Hades, Hermes, Venat, Zenos or even the story surrounding one dimensional. The very fact EW is so controversial (here at least) kinda tells me it's far from one dimensional. Friendship has been present since the dawn of 14 so I can't personally use that as a point against the game. Youll always be stronger with friends, that's just statistics. The world now is still very much grounded, the scope is just wider imo (Considering we have different worlds now).
Also shame your ff3 bias (I'm joking lol)

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Not that second portion I find interesting. I can't point to poeple like Hades, Hermes, Venat, Zenos or even the story surrounding one dimensional. The very fact EW is so controversial (here at least) kinda tells me it's far from one dimensional. Friendship has been present since the dawn of 14 so I can't personally use that as a point against the game. Youll always be stronger with friends, that's just statistics. The world now is still very much grounded, the scope is just wider imo (Considering we have different worlds now).
Also shame your ff3 bias (I'm joking lol)

As a counter example, look at the worldbuilding for sharlayan over the years. It’s followed the exact path that the brotherhood of steel has in fallout, losing the dubious morality and extreme isolationism in favour of the bowdlerised parody of itself. All the nuance and darker undercurrent has been sanded off, making it significantly harder to care for as a result. Ala mhigo was built up from 1.0 only to be ignored for a jaunt to the far east with a shallow revolution. I think norvrandt only got away with it because it’s the familiar twisted and in the post apocalypse. For characters, the mundanity of lolorito and both halves of that rival lalafell felt more relatable than the whole universe’s despair being thrown around. Even gaius, the invading garleans and their succession issues offered a more grounded problem. Then they decided the garleans weren’t allowed any foot to stand on with the retcon about primals draining the land. I dunno, hades worked as a villain because it was a reflection of the player character to an extent, it’s only lead to them tying themselves in knots with regard to morality since. The ascians being cackling madmen wasn’t great, but their dealings with thordan was a nice use of villains having competing goals. There just doesn’t seem to be the kind of inter character conflict there used to be. I hope this wasn’t too rambly.

I always found the scathing distaste for ARR to be rather bizarre. It was very common for a lot of players to insist that the game only truly started with HW but...that simply wasn't true at all. ARR had a lot of fetch quests that could and were shortened down but plenty of world and character building took place that had actual pay off in later expansions.

Large swathes of the game's established lore seems to be at risk of just being completely retconned out of the blue. Sharlayan, for example, was established as a sinister and shady isolationist nation that sent assassins to kill or threaten anybody who shared knowledge with the outside world without permission. Whenever we explored remnants of Sharlayan outposts there was very much a sense that something was 'off' about the place. Bizarre experiments, dangerous research left behind, unsettling familiars and constructs...

Then when we go to explore the place directly it had all its rough edges sanded away to be little more than a glorified university town where pretty much everyone is very friendly and for some strange reason, there's a bunch of male viera running about despite it being established as part of the worldbuilding that they're exceptionally rare.

All in all, I just hope it comes out someday what the original script for Endwalker entailed since so much of this expansion's story seems stuff that was abruptly changed from one thing to another.

Originally Posted by Theodric

Then when we go to explore the place directly it had all its rough edges sanded away to be little more than a glorified university town where pretty much everyone is very friendly and for some strange reason, there's a bunch of male viera running about despite it being established as part of the worldbuilding that they're exceptionally rare.

I had always struggled to put into words why EW's depiction of Sharlayan bothered me but you hit the nail on the head with this post for me. It comes off more like a college paradise for 20-somethings to me (hell the last stand might as well be a starbucks too) rather than what previous expansions had alluded to.

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I had always struggled to put into words why EW's depiction of Sharlayan bothered me but you hit the nail on the head with this post for me. It comes off more like a college paradise for 20-somethings to me (hell the last stand might as well be a starbucks too) rather than what previous expansions had alluded to.

You ever think things were set up that way as a means to keep folks away per the whole isolationist angle? It makes sense to me that they would create a more tense air around themselves to keep the outside world from interfering with their work. And now that their work is complete that facade now longer needs to be kept.
Thancred alone let me know Shar wasn't how some made it seem (to me ofc).

Originally Posted by Theodric

and for some strange reason, there's a bunch of male viera running about despite it being established as part of the worldbuilding that they're exceptionally rare.

To be fair, that lore never would've survived making them playable anyway.