Really? They put Shadowkeeper on the Mog Station?

[Voltyblast]

I appreciate you actually stepping up with my list because yeah, proves theres just as much better stuff in-game anyway

If you imply the plentiful reskins of the same mounts and glamours, then yes there is a lot of stuff. Better is debatable, a lot of stuff today is recycled (do I even need to make examples? Fine: the Manalis set is the same as the Diabolc set, the prestige set is a recycle of stuff like high allagan and labyrinth of the ancients, and too many other examples to count)
But yes, there is surely a lot of stuff...but wasn't your point that the quality was better ingame? And not the quantity?

Meanwhile in WoW you can get plenty of better mounts in game for free, such as the hivemind (a 5 seated mount), the mammoth and yak (3 slots), and if you're a druid you can let your friend ride you while you're in your flight form.
As for the transmog...well you can still get the thunderfury, which is one of the best looking weapons in the game, but I assume it's just too boring to have a 2 meter long 1handed sword that shoots lightning.

Say what you will, but wow still has some of the best mounts ingame for free. Meanwhile if I wanted some of the actually good mounts in here, I'd have to dish out cash. Yes, SOME mounts here are good but TOO MANY are locked in the shop. I make the example of Cruise Chaser because...where can I find a similar mount as that? And if you are going to answer "The Gabriel" the answer is "not even close"

Whatever, it's not fair, but I assume people are totally fine with this. Looking forward for more expensive, unique mounts and costumes in the cash shop which I will never buy.

[Atelier-Bagur]

You mean how people label Dragonflight as the best Expac since WoTLK? I take that as a huge W considering the hard-on people have for that xpac. But its okay you played WoW for 10 years, burned out and now your tribalism has you defend your newest addiction. Whiteknights with recent join date will never be not funny.

What W is Square taking btw. Failed project after failed project. FF16 is going to be their first hit since KH3 and even that one received mixed reception in the community.

You are so delusional if you think THATS the language people are saying about DF. The community believes that DF is just better than the previous 2 expansions but nobody ever said just as good as Wrath.

1. The expansion didnt sell as well as Shadowlands

2. If were talking recent company wide Ws, need I remind you the broken promises with Wrath Classic and them ruining it with the WoW Token. As well as the scrapped PvE of OW2? You know the whole reason why that game was made in the first place?

3. Also you have been such out of the loop in regards to FFXVI as the recent demo became a hit with the general audience even going so far as turning people who weee initially off about the game to wanting to buy it.

But keep living in that blissful ignorance of yours I guess

[Shinkuno]

You are so delusional if you think THATS the language people are saying about DF. The community believes that DF is just better than the previous 2 expansions but nobody ever said just as good as Wrath.

1. The expansion didnt sell as well as Shadowlands

2. If were talking recent company wide Ws, need I remind you the broken promises with Wrath Classic and them ruining it with the WoW Token. As well as the scrapped PvE of OW2? You know the whole reason why that game was made in the first place?

3. Also you have been such out of the loop in regards to FFXVI as the recent demo became a hit with the general audience even going so far as turning people who weee initially off about the game to wanting to buy it.

But keep living in that blissful ignorance of yours I guess

Maybe learn to read. I literally said 16 is gonna be a hit. But cant expect someone that sees the need to defend his favourite company every minute to read.

[ChrisRedfield2]

The wow Shop has currently:
- 24 mounts
- 21 pets
- 1 toy
- 5 transmog sets

The ffxiv shop has:
- 36 mounts
- 42 pets (or minions as they're called here)
- 119 costumes sets
- 42 emotes
- 40 sets of dyes
- 30 weapon skins
- 95 armors
- 20 accessories
- 12 chocobo bardings
- 42 orchestrion rolls
- 156 housing items
- 2 face paints
- 1 fashion accessory
- 1 tool

I deliberately omitted stuff like fantasia or race changes and level boosting, as well as "bank slots" or glamour dresser/wardrobe.

But still, am I missing something here or are we really saying that ffxiv cash shop is actually better? Because I don't think I've seen a f2p shop loaded with this much stuff.

I'll be honest I never actually even knew there was such a huge difference between FF14 and WoW.

Of course ESO's cash shop could probably compete with FF14's but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom in the first place.

To say something sober for once here, it's actually astounding how Atelier and that other Roe can defend this for so long. It seriously takes some extreme cognitive dissonance to defend SE on every single little thing when the facts are this stark.

All I've witnessed in the last few pages is two people who, when proven wrong, dig their heels in and come up with nonsencial arguments. It reminds me of myself when I was 8, arguing with my dad about stuff, and when my dad told me I'm wrong, instead of accepting it I just clinged to the most incredulous lines of argument. Seriously stupid shit like "maybe he actually likes being hit".

I don't know what to say, but this is really the reason I show absolutely zero respect towards these people.

Why do you think I occasionally talk normally to people here and then just go back to insults and attacks after a week or so? Because despite Volty's lucid and calm explanations, despite his concessions (even when they were right in the first place), despite his unassailable facts, the white knights don't budge a single inch. Whenever you try communicating with white knights seriously, whenever you try engaging with them on good faith, you'll just witness the most pathetic defenses of the game. If Square Enix physically hit someone today, the white knights will defend it by saying "maybe he likes getting hit" like an 8-year-old child. You can write an insightful critique and they'll just respond with "I like that" or "I see no issue".

There are saints who can persist in explaining things to 8-year-old children but I'm not one of them. These white knights either do not have the mental capacity or the desire to ever engage with you in good faith in the first place. These last few pages have proven as much.

No hard feelings, simply stating my own opinion, even if debatable.

You are so delusional.
But keep living in that blissful ignorance of yours I guess

I have absolutely zero qualms in making you white knights outraged. You do this to reasonable people. I saw through it a long time ago so I never bothered to be reasonable to you.

[Voltyblast]

I'll be honest I never actually even knew there was such a huge difference between FF14 and WoW.

Of course ESO's cash shop could probably compete with FF14's but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom in the first place.

To say something sober for once here, it's actually astounding how Atelier and that other Roe can defend this for so long. It seriously takes some extreme cognitive dissonance to defend SE on every single little thing when the facts are this stark.

All I've witnessed in the last few pages is two people who, when proven wrong, dig their heels in and come up with nonsencial arguments. It reminds me of myself when I was 8, arguing with my dad about stuff, and when my dad told me I'm wrong, instead of accepting it I just clinged to the most incredulous lines of argument. Seriously stupid shit like "maybe he actually likes being hit".

I don't know what to say, but this is really the reason I show absolutely zero respect towards these people.

Why do you think I occasionally talk normally to people here and then just go back to insults and attacks after a week or so? Because despite Volty's lucid and calm explanations, despite his concessions (even when they were right in the first place), despite his unassailable facts, the white knights don't budge a single inch. Whenever you try communicating with white knights seriously, whenever you try engaging with them on good faith, you'll just witness the most pathetic defenses of the game. If Square Enix physically hit someone today, the white knights will defend it by saying "maybe he likes getting hit" like an 8-year-old child. You can write an insightful critique and they'll just respond with "I like that" or "I see no issue".

There are saints who can persist in explaining things to 8-year-old children but I'm not one of them. These white knights either do not have the mental capacity or the desire to ever engage with you in good faith in the first place. These last few pages have proven as much.

I cannot count games like ESO for one simple reason: they're not pay to play, only WoW is the real comparison that you can make because it's the only other mainstream mmo that is subscription - not counting EVE because it's more niche and very hard to get into, but let's keep it together for the time being. My point is that F2P or B2P can't be really compared as they do make money from the shop since they lack a subscription, which means the shop IS their only way to make money. And I believe on this we can both agree.

Still, I have little to no care about what people will think of me which is why I'm okay talking for once - even though I prefer not to because it's usually not worth it.
I know for sure a lot of people hate me and that's fine, it means I'm doing something right: I've lost all of my friends due to this game, because of my "problematic" opinions and I'm fine with that. I will rather be of my own mind and be forever alone for the rest of my days in this godforsaken game, than blindly accept anything given to me. It's how it is anyway, as you say everyone will defend their actions and, in all honesty, I'm totally okay with that. I enjoy the game despite the flaws and that's all I care, and I will stop for good when I'm ready to stop.

I did my fights, I have my scars, now I simply enjoy doing some scuffles, and as a former wow player myself who played since vanilla I can at least say something.

Which is why I firmly believe that the ffxiv cash shop is the worst one of the two games. And if people disagree then fine by me, keep disagreeing.

Still appreciate the concern, but be careful not to get burned yourself. It's not worth it. I'm only doing it cause I got annoyed at the whole cash shop deal, especially when I can see both sides with ease. I simply disagreed with the cash shop in wow being worse and decided to take my step.

Maybe I should go back now and enjoy some gaming. I probably fought enough for today.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I'll be honest I never actually even knew there was such a huge difference between FF14 and WoW.

Of course ESO's cash shop could probably compete with FF14's but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom in the first place.

To say something sober for once here, it's actually astounding how Atelier and that other Roe can defend this for so long. It seriously takes some extreme cognitive dissonance to defend SE on every single little thing when the facts are this stark.

All I've witnessed in the last few pages is two people who, when proven wrong, dig their heels in and come up with nonsencial arguments. It reminds me of myself when I was 8, arguing with my dad about stuff, and when my dad told me I'm wrong, instead of accepting it I just clinged to the most incredulous lines of argument. Seriously stupid shit like "maybe he actually likes being hit".

I don't know what to say, but this is really the reason I show absolutely zero respect towards these people.

Why do you think I occasionally talk normally to people here and then just go back to insults and attacks after a week or so? Because despite Volty's lucid and calm explanations, despite his concessions (even when they were right in the first place), despite his unassailable facts, the white knights don't budge a single inch. Whenever you try communicating with white knights seriously, whenever you try engaging with them on good faith, you'll just witness the most pathetic defenses of the game. If Square Enix physically hit someone today, the white knights will defend it by saying "maybe he likes getting hit" like an 8-year-old child. You can write an insightful critique and they'll just respond with "I like that" or "I see no issue".

There are saints who can persist in explaining things to 8-year-old children but I'm not one of them. These white knights either do not have the mental capacity or the desire to ever engage with you in good faith in the first place. These last few pages have proven as much.





I have absolutely zero qualms in making you white knights outraged. You do this to reasonable people. I saw through it a long time ago so I never bothered to be reasonable to you.

Big difference between being reasonable and throwing insults. You can choose to not be reasonable yet avoid insults. You just use this as a reason to justify being an ass to others when all it amounts to is a difference of opinion.
Yall can't handle that. The word hater is rarely seen around here yet bootlicker, whiteknight etc. Is often used/seen. Interesting if were to believe theres that many "white knights" around here as many of you claim. It's very clear regardless of reason that one side of this fence is very intolerable of the other. Even holding a neutral stance such as (don't like it don't buy it), is not good enough for you guys. Everyone must feel the same as you or were gonna get insulted. You talk about being childish yet isn't hurling insults for a difference of opinion just that? Childish? Are we not adults here that understand people are different, ideas are different, experiences are different?

If folks have such an issue with the shop I encourage you guys to leave others to their own devices n band together. Let SE know yall have an issue with how this is being done. Spread the word of what you're doing as far as you can and try to push back. If it doesn't work then you have your answer and it's time to move on, simple. End of the day you don't get to decide what someone does with their hard earned money and unless they're destroying their own lives or someone elses I can't call said person dumb for spending it how they want.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I cannot count games like ESO for one simple reason: they're not pay to play, only WoW is the real comparison that you can make because it's the only other mainstream mmo that is subscription - not counting EVE because it's more niche and very hard to get into, but let's keep it together for the time being. My point is that F2P or B2P can't be really compared as they do make money from the shop since they lack a subscription, which means the shop IS their only way to make money. And I believe on this we can both agree.

Still, I have little to no care about what people will think of me which is why I'm okay talking for once - even though I prefer not to because it's usually not worth it.
I know for sure a lot of people hate me and that's fine, it means I'm doing something right: I've lost all of my friends due to this game, because of my "problematic" opinions and I'm fine with that. I will rather be of my own mind and be forever alone for the rest of my days in this godforsaken game, than blindly accept anything given to me. It's how it is anyway, as you say everyone will defend their actions and, in all honesty, I'm totally okay with that. I enjoy the game despite the flaws and that's all I care, and I will stop for good when I'm ready to stop.

I did my fights, I have my scars, now I simply enjoy doing some scuffles, and as a former wow player myself who played since vanilla I can at least say something.

Which is why I firmly believe that the ffxiv cash shop is the worst one of the two games. And if people disagree then fine by me, keep disagreeing.

Still appreciate the concern, but be careful not to get burned yourself. It's not worth it. I'm only doing it cause I got annoyed at the whole cash shop deal, especially when I can see both sides with ease. I simply disagreed with the cash shop in wow being worse and decided to take my step.

Maybe I should go back now and enjoy some gaming. I probably fought enough for today.

Why do you ignore me saying that I think the cash shop is still bad anyway? Im just pointing out how ridiculous it is to believe that the quality to the items in the shop compared to in-game is more so.

[Alleo]

I may be a bit of a hypocrite since I did buy stuff from the mog station, yet I still dont really like how that shop is getting more and more stuff.
In the past the cash shop was only meant for old event items (instead of just giving them for free with the new events like they did sometimes at the beginning...) and yet here we are, with more and more exclusive, expensive stuff.

The veteran reward system ended and yet instead of letting us exchange mounts of existing bosses with the new systems (the certificates) we barely get anything there while the cash shops gets a lot of updates.

Maybe a bit more balance would be nice. Add different colored versions of the same mount to the different systems. Or give us the chance to earn it ingame but it would be a big grind while you can also buy it online if you dont want to grind for it.

Its sad that we now live in a world where the Diablo IV ingame shop is considered as okay because it could be worse (for a games that costs 70€+). How far will this go until its even too much for most of us? It all started small and even in the past people where like "dont be negative, its only old stuff" and now we get ingame bosses in there...

[Boblawblah]

I may be a bit of a hypocrite since I did buy stuff from the mog station, yet I still dont really like how that shop is getting more and more stuff.
In the past the cash shop was only meant for old event items (instead of just giving them for free with the new events like they did sometimes at the beginning...) and yet here we are, with more and more exclusive, expensive stuff.

The veteran reward system ended and yet instead of letting us exchange mounts of existing bosses with the new systems (the certificates) we barely get anything there while the cash shops gets a lot of updates.

Maybe a bit more balance would be nice. Add different colored versions of the same mount to the different systems. Or give us the chance to earn it ingame but it would be a big grind while you can also buy it online if you dont want to grind for it.

Its sad that we now live in a world where the Diablo IV ingame shop is considered as okay because it could be worse (for a games that costs 70€+). How far will this go until its even too much for most of us? It all started small and even in the past people where like "dont be negative, its only old stuff" and now we get ingame bosses in there...

I'm the same. I've bought a mount, one part of an outfit and a couple of the old Christmas outfits, but I'll always argue for less importance on out of game purchases like the cash shop and retainers. Hypocritical of me? For sure, but humans are rarely completely consistent.

[Iscah]

The wow Shop has currently:[list of stuff]

The ffxiv shop has:[list of stuff]

Honest question – how do those numbers compare to each game's amount of in-game gear, regardless of your personal opinion of its quality? Does WoW have proportionately less items to match proportionately less cash shop? Or is the shop perhaps making more money from selling tokens so less inclined to put work into making things to sell?

I haven't played WoW and do not have an opinion on it.

In this case, please tell me which ingame item and mount have the same quality as to those in the shop

Glamour-wise the majority of items that I use regularly are from the game, not from Mog Station.