Is there a way to fix savage?

[Colt47]

Hardmode content kind of feels broken in FFXIV when it comes to savage. Every single design around it points to it being content with set groups of people involved, but instead it has turned more into a hodge podge of people with different schedules and commitment levels running together in PF. People run the content at the same point at the start, but depending on who people group with, how quickly they can get into groups, and how much time they put in, it always seems to come into a wave where some people get orphaned somewhere along the chain.

[Kes13a]

its always been better content with a set group. learn the fight together beat it together

sure, can be done through PF, but no one that wants to actually beat it would use that

[DrWho2010]

what do you expect? that's the nature of pick up groups. you're at the mercy of whatever's available at the time if you don't have a dedicated static group. In NA/EU at least.

JP they practice in party finder and clear in duty finder.

The system is working as intended.

[Jeeqbit]

The way to fix it would be for it to save in your character data how far you were when the first person in your party died. So let's you got the boss to 50% and then a party member died. That's your progression, because it's possible you were responsible for their death or didn't save them.

Then we should be able to restrict people who join to people who have been to 50% cleanly.

We should also be able to require that people have defeated the striking dummy for the final savage fight, because if they can't beat that they probably don't even have the crafted gear item level or other things like food and pots. Or they don't know their rotation or didn't do job quests to unlock basic job abilities.

That would solve a lot of the issues with Party Finder. But it's too complicated of a suggestion to communicate to developers who speak Japanese.

[Themarvin]

If you can't beat it keep doing it untill you can.

[Colt47]

It feels like content that is supposed to be a social experience for multiple people and to overcome challenges, but in reality it actually pushes people apart. The solutions SE implemented such as personal completion status impacting the loot others receive, having options to filter out people who have and have not completed it, and other tools all further segment the few people that do savage. Some people even go to great lengths to level two characters just to bypass the lockout so they can participate with more than one group.

For a game that is built around having someone do everything on a single character, it seems very out of character for FFXIV to have a system that would push people to have to do something so unintuitive to play the game the way they feel they should be able to.

[Brill_]

This is probably my biggest issue with the game. Savage is probably best with a static, but if one does not have a consistent schedule, then you're only option is PF. With PF, if you don't clear with in a few weeks of content being released then learning parties dry up. Prog parties become hard to fill because people that cleared are not going to go back and help prog. I have no problem taking things slower, but taking things slower means missing the boat on learning parties.

I really wish this game had a middle difficulty. Normal raids are super easy, savage requires static. If I had something in the middle, probably would never worry about savage.

[TomsYoungerBro]

sure, can be done through PF, but no one that wants to actually beat it would use that

But people do it all the time though and some even find it better than a static because you are not committed to a certain time with a certain group of people. Some even form/join casual statics and use additional free time outside of scheduled raids to progress beyond the static's prog point. The Devs have kept pugging in mind when it comes to fight design at least.

Back to OP's point: The system of Savage raiding I believe is fundamentally flawed and unfun in its current state. I enjoy the fights yes, and I enjoy both pugging, playing with friends, and/or playing with a static sure, but its the savage systems that make it restrictive and not fun. I understand the reasoning for why these systems are in place (Savage is the only avenue to BiS gear), and the current systems do what they are supposed to do, but I personally feel it makes it unfun.


1. The 2-chest system limits player engagement with the content

Unlike EX and Ultimate, Savage punishes players in your party if you have cleared that fight for the week with deducting half the loot from the table (and all of the loot if 5+ have cleared). This incredibly inhibits players on interacting with the fight more than once per week once they have cleared as they are only given 1 free token. Once that token is used, you are essentially a massive grief to the party. Even on the weekend 2-chest parties are normally the majority (even for prog/1st clear parties). It really isn't until monday where you can reliably find any chest parties where you can help prog, clear, or re-clear. This then limits players from circulating back into learning parties as the tier continues forward..


2. You cannot re-clear fights YOU HAVE CLEARED in any order

This always baffles me. If someone has cleared 9, 10, and 11, why can't they go re-clear 11 first with no penalty? Sure, if you want to punish players for jumping straight into prog 12 thats fine, but why limit people from re-clearing in any order? Now if you have friends or a static that only reclears 9 for instance, you would have to forfeit doing your 10 and 11 reclears until you met up with them to reclear 9 if you wanted to. It creates an unncessary restriction on the player.


There are other points I can bring up in regards to flaws of the savage system, but those are the main two regarding the issue OP brings up.

[DrWho2010]

just speculation.
1 - reduction of rewards for helping other people clear. This is a handicap to prevent overgearing others too quickly. Also, a majority of people should not be attempting the instance again for the week after clearing. You're "meant" to be doing other things - playing other games, engaging in other in-game activities like crafting/gathering/big fishing, farming other EX content, doing older savage for gear/glam/mounts, etc. I personally myself do savage but I have no interest in doing any fight more than once a clear per week. (at least until unlock).

2 - put plainly, progression lock is an artificial subscription time extender. Can't let people get their stuff too quickly, bad for business.

[TomsYoungerBro]

just speculation.
1 - reduction of rewards for helping other people clear. This is a handicap to prevent overgearing others too quickly. Also, a majority of people should not be attempting the instance again for the week after clearing. You're "meant" to be doing other things - playing other games, engaging in other in-game activities like crafting/gathering/big fishing, farming other EX content, doing older savage for gear/glam/mounts, etc. I personally myself do savage but I have no interest in doing any fight more than once a clear per week. (at least until unlock).

What you have explained is how the system works, which i pointed out it is doing what it is supposed to do (and i understand WHY it is in place). The problem is it is incredibly limiting. "You're meant to be doing other things", but why does the same logic not apply to Extreme, Ultimate, or Unreal? Ultimate (on patch) and Unreal both have weekly lockouts but don't stop the player from jumping back in even after receiving their reward.

2 - put plainly, progression lock is an artificial subscription time extender. Can't let people get their stuff too quickly, bad for business.

Neither point you made here applies...at all. They've already progressed through multiple fights in my example, and they don't get things "quicker". If you only need gear from 11 for example, you can still jump into 11. You just can't get anything from 9 or 10 that week. If you need gear from 9 and/or 10 still, you still have to clear those fights, which takes time.... So?