What if Tanks were designed like Healers?

[Renathras]

DRK (that's the easy one), MNK, and...GNB?

EDIT:

This response amuses me because you are acting as thought almost every single person in this conversation other than you *hasn't* already had their preferred job/playstyle on the chopping block before, and seen it taken out.

Oh, I have as well.

And the interesting thing is - I'm the understanding one here saying "give everyone something". You guys, who have had what you love taken, should be the ones holding that position, knowing what it's like to be on the receiving end. Instead...you aren't. Seemingly content as long as "you got yours", no matter how many other people are upset in the process of you walking over them to get what you want.

My approach is for everyone to get something so everyone can be at least content, even if not perfectly happy, instead of pissing off one group or pissing off another by changing everything to suit the one or leaving everything as it is to suit the other.

And, for the record, there has been a lot of "Preserving what we had" in the game's history, it just tends to sometimes...misfire, for lack of a better word.

For examples, BRD has Sidewinder now even though it doesn't interact with DoTs, PLD has Goring Blade now just...to have it? These are cases of things the Devs have kept, despite it making more sense to remove them, to "preserve what we had". They swapped Trick and Mug on NIN, but kept both abilities. They kept Summon Selene for what, 10 patches (5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3)? 10 patches AFTER it no longer was relevant at all. They kept Living Dead working the same way it was implemented from 3.0 all the way to 6.1 or so. It wasn't even an expansion level change, right, they made it in the patch AFTER the expansion?

The thing is, they tend to be stubborn about keeping the things that DON'T work or aren't useful to keep.

It’s not impossible to create skill trees, but ensuring each job feels not only balanced, but also has identity and feels fun to play is possible with our current format.

And there's always the "fallacy of choice" where you end up with skill/talent trees...just for everyone to look up and all use the standard cookie-cutter build anyway.

Not everyone and not always - I was on the side for NOT removing talent trees back in the day in WoW when they did that - but it does tend to offer less choices than people would like. Though imo, it'd be nice if a few more classes/Jobs were combined like SCH/SMN. People might not mind having to swap Jobs as much if they didn't have to level them separately. Going from Holy Priest to Shadow Priest is a respec.

[Icecylee]

And the interesting thing is - I'm the understanding one here saying "give everyone something". You guys, who have had what you love taken, should be the ones holding that position, knowing what it's like to be on the receiving end. Instead...you aren't. Seemingly content as long as "you got yours", no matter how many other people are upset in the process of you walking over them to get what you want.

My approach is for everyone to get something so everyone can be at least content, even if not perfectly happy, instead of pissing off one group or pissing off another by changing everything to suit the one or leaving everything as it is to suit the other.

I mean, it's not like I *want* people to be unhappy. I don't get my jollies knowing someone else has been fucked over. I just do not think it is practical or remotely sustainable, especially with this dev team, unless there are some major changes put in place. Which does not, at the moment, seem likely. And that it's important we recognize that while they did a decent enough job manage 10 or so Jobs, they've been floundering ever since they hit 14+, and there's no fucking way they could handle keeping track of 40+ separate unique jobs and playstyles. Something's got to give, and it's pretty normal for MMOs to have kits get complete overhauls as time/expansions pass, so I've simply made peace with the fact that not everyone's always going to be happy.

[Aravell]

And the interesting thing is - I'm the understanding one here saying "give everyone something". You guys, who have had what you love taken, should be the ones holding that position, knowing what it's like to be on the receiving end. Instead...you aren't. Seemingly content as long as "you got yours", no matter how many other people are upset in the process of you walking over them to get what you want.

Can you please stop acting like you're some magnanimous figure that's kindly understanding and wants to give us what we want? You've constantly shown that you don't care one bit about the people who liked HW and SB gameplay losing everything and getting pissed off, but god forbid an EW player gets pissed off instead. Please get over yourself, it's very tiring that you consistently put yourself above others when we're all arguing for our own self-interests in the end, like how you're arguing for one healer to remain as is, except you're pretending you're holding a higher position because you already have what you want right now.