Make gear less boring

[Colt47]

Gear is boring because of splitting a lot of functionality for gear behind content walls. Like being able to dye raid gear is only possible if people do savage, which is by and large a rather unfun set of content to engage in for the majority. Think I originally said that savage was some of the best content they had, but that was before doing it for several tiers and seeing the flaws in it.

Other part is that the statistics in this game are pretty linear and everything favors damage over defense. Once someone has the ability to survive getting hit by a single attack, all that matters is what combination of materia nets the highest output and that is the end of it.

[Absurdity]

Gear is boring because of splitting a lot of functionality for gear behind content walls. Like being able to dye raid gear is only possible if people do savage, which is by and large a rather unfun set of content to engage in for the majority.

That has absolutely nothing to do with gear being boring.
It's boring because it has basically no influence on your gameplay, it's just a big "do more damage, take less damage, live longer" stat stick.

We tend to obsess over sub-stats in this game but outside of skill speed messing with your rotation they really don't matter at the end of the day.
You could have nothing but piety on your healer gear or nothing but tenacity on your tank gear and you would still be able to clear savage (and most likely ultimate) just fine.

But that's also the reason why we obsess over miniscule gains from certain sub-stats, because these stats are so boring that there is literally nothing else to think about besides getting that 1% more dps.

[Rolder50]

That has absolutely nothing to do with gear being boring.
It's boring because it has basically no influence on your gameplay, it's just a big "do more damage, take less damage, live longer" stat stick.

We tend to obsess over sub-stats in this game but outside of skill speed messing with your rotation they really don't matter at the end of the day.
You could have nothing but piety on your healer gear or nothing but tenacity on your tank gear and you would still be able to clear savage (and most likely ultimate) just fine.

But that's also the reason why we obsess over miniscule gains from certain sub-stats, because these stats are so boring that there is literally nothing else to think about besides getting that 1% more dps.

Not only that, but you could go full piety, full tenancity, and in most cases even full skill/spell speed and not even notice a difference in your gameplay. Without a parser, you'd have no idea the difference between gear A and gear B

[Shurrikhan]

That has absolutely nothing to do with gear being boring.
It's boring because it has basically no influence on your gameplay, it's just a big "do more damage, take less damage, live longer" stat stick.

I wonder how it is that we ignore that Set Bonuses which affect gameplay likewise don't necessarily expand said gameplay.

Slightly more often, those bonuses instead constrain gameplay, replacing in-combat options that used to be balanced against each other with, instead, some overriding 'featured' way to play... that is itself narrower and frequently more finnicky, or else offers excessive lenience where skill-gaps used to be more prominent and efforts more fittingly rewarded.

Unless the kit is purposely designed in an incomplete manner, adding atop it tends to clunkily reduce its skill ceiling and fluidity, not improve upon it.

And if you're designing kits poorly just so borrowed powers can then complete them, I have to wonder how you got your priorities so backwards.

- Someone who has played with set bonuses at least as often as not.

_________


At the very least, acquisitions which customize gameplay should be considered first and foremost customization, not just carrots to be dangled before the player that will then rotate how they're actually allowed to play each job (usually in poorly thought-through and gameplay-degrading ways).

I'd be okay with revamping Materia in that manner, for instance, and giving players the direct choice of what Materia to take. But don't force rotating Tier Sets or Set Bonuses of any sort; both just reduce the gearing and gameplay choices available to players.

[Shougun]

I wonder how it is that we ignore that Set Bonuses which affect gameplay likewise don't necessarily expand said gameplay.

Slightly more often, those bonuses instead constrain gameplay, replacing in-combat options that used to be balanced against each other with, instead, some overriding 'featured' way to play... that is itself narrower and frequently more finnicky, or else offers excessive lenience where skill-gaps used to be more prominent and efforts more fittingly rewarded.

Unless the kit is purposely designed in an incomplete manner, adding atop it tends to clunkily reduce its skill ceiling and fluidity, not improve upon it.

And if you're designing kits poorly just so borrowed powers can then complete them, I have to wonder how you got your priorities so backwards.

- Someone who has played with set bonuses at least as often as not.

_________


At the very least, acquisitions which customize gameplay should be considered first and foremost customization, not just carrots to be dangled before the player that will then rotate how they're actually allowed to play each job (usually in poorly thought-through and gameplay-degrading ways).

I'd be okay with revamping Materia in that manner, for instance, and giving players the direct choice of what Materia to take. But don't force rotating Tier Sets or Set Bonuses of any sort; both just reduce the gearing and gameplay choices available to players.

I've only viewed borrowed power from afar, which to me looks like a more expansion wide 'exploratory' system (where we have Eureka or Bozja, WoW would have that expansion's relic). I never thought it was that interesting that player's lost their effort, but did curiously wonder at it if it stayed as an option among options.. if it could be akin to a horizontal system built on top of a linear system. So each expansion might introduce new powers but you'd not suddenly lose everything (so no 'de-volving').

IMO the best systems to reference for these things are like Hades or Diablo 3 effects.. Those effects at that scale wouldn't easily fit into FFXIV, and would cause massive redesigns, but just example of where powers can be really exciting and build defining (but not exclusionary). Naturally would also work better in a horizontal system lol. Linear does mess with a lot... WoW's general item / enchanting effects always seemed okay to me (though I've more vanilla experience, and don't really know what happened on a more intimate scale past TBC). Most easily functional system for FFXIV as we have it, imo, would be materia effects working into special materia slots (such you can't stack a bunch of effects into one item) or alternatively they're not slotted into items but into the soul crystal itself (assuming gear sets can hold the materia layout, such that you can more freely change the crystal). I would also note what is nice about Diablo 3 set example is the ring of grandeur and valuable bonus effects with incomplete sets- this allows build craft still while harkening to those 'complete set' ideals some people may have- if we simply went straight to set only in FFXIV, given the linear growth, and likelihood that SE would only add one effect at max set, it would be extremely limiting and while adding novelty would destroy any sense of building (novelty exclusively from if the effects do anything cool or not).

Obviously in harder content you wont really get to pick as many options, when a multiplayer game has like 3 builds for a job that's a win given normally we're railroaded into 2 or likely less. Though this is why I was saying I'd be salty if it was made for hard content given they'd not be able to appreciate the options as much as non-hard content, and would likely force strict designs, and why I said 'worst case' it's echo-able content only and best case we all get to have fun (and harder contents will be more restrictive as they always have and always will be).

While I think it's harder for well balanced content these ideas largely explain what I dearly had wished for Blue Mage prior to release and why I continue to hope / push for them to redesign the earlier kit and add core spells that can encapsulate the ideas of things like Hades or Diablo 3 'build-craft'. Rather than what they did which was make a weak build system by taking the one job concept (limited) not forced in a trinity.. and forcing back into a trinity XD. Some were excited due to 'builds' but I was a bit salty that the best builds we could muster was making blue look almost normal (almost, it still clearly has some bonker spells).

[Axxion]

Gear that has more complexity could lead to balance issues with the numerous different benefits of different gear.

Gear that has more complexity could also make it less casual to get the gear that players expect you to have for savage.

And the current system works and has worked for years. People chase BiS even though there is very little you actually need it for, mainly ultimates and it's nice to kill everything from dungeons to criterion dungeons faster.

So with these 3 points, I doubt they will actually change it.

i think you overthinking this really bad.

if you look at it like doing savage means it can drop gear that could give passives buffs. for instance lets say a 3% increase to crit chance or something that could make interesting. doing the normal raids could just offer normal gear and it wont effect much

[Shougun]

i think you overthinking this really bad.

if you look at it like doing savage means it can drop gear that could give passives buffs. for instance lets say a 3% increase to crit chance or something that could make interesting. doing the normal raids could just offer normal gear and it wont effect much

I still disagree with the idea / logic it should be from savage, at least localized or specialized in anyway. Savage, ultimate, the like content is the reason we have such tight balance (and bland actions). The regular player is not bean counting this stuff.

Unique unbalanced stuff benefits the casual player and it is because of bean counting (not the regular player) that we lost a lot of this stuff. Naturally the hardercore players can enjoy the flavor, but will experience more extreme pressure to have specific things in order to be part of the theater of higher end group gameplay. It is why I said I'd honestly be annoyed if it was savage only, given that it was the savage acquiescence that caused us to lean away from interesting things anyways- now the solution is to make it exclusive? Ah man.. salty lol.

Worst case imo should be it comes from all content but doesn't work in content that can't get echo. Best case, everyone gets to have fun.

[Iscah]

if you look at it like doing savage means it can drop gear that could give passives buffs. for instance lets say a 3% increase to crit chance or something that could make interesting. doing the normal raids could just offer normal gear and it wont effect much

But still, what makes that more interesting than something else? You can't pick and choose what to wear; there's still going to be one best set of gear which gives you a predetermined set of stats.

Not like 'interest' would determine savage participation. If anything, it would go up. Still anything is better than nothing.

If people aren't already doing Savage for the higher IL gear, why would they be interested in doing it for higher IL gear that adds slightly more unnecessary-for-standard-content stats?

[KitingGenbu]

But still, what makes that more interesting than something else? You can't pick and choose what to wear; there's still going to be one best set of gear which gives you a predetermined set of stats.




If people aren't already doing Savage for the higher IL gear, why would they be interested in doing it for higher IL gear that adds slightly more unnecessary-for-standard-content stats?

You find extra stuff on gear unnecessary, which is fine. It doesn't mean that others feel the same way. Some people are motivated by having interesting things to push towards that might alter their rotation in some way, that's the whole point of set bonuses, to either amplify something or alter it. Again, having something under the secondary stat line wont impact you, but it might motivate others. Personally, I find it boring that the hardest content in the game just gives me minor stat increases to something that is simply a time-gate and requires not real skill level at all to obtain (tome gear).

[Axxion]

I still disagree with the idea / logic it should be from savage, at least localized or specialized in anyway. Savage, ultimate, the like content is the reason we have such tight balance (and bland actions). The regular player is not bean counting this stuff.

Unique unbalanced stuff benefits the casual player and it is because of bean counting (not the regular player) that we lost a lot of this stuff. Naturally the hardercore players can enjoy the flavor, but will experience more extreme pressure to have specific things in order to be part of the theater of higher end group gameplay. It is why I said I'd honestly be annoyed if it was savage only, given that it was the savage acquiescence that caused us to lean away from interesting things anyways- now the solution is to make it exclusive? Ah man.. salty lol.

Worst case imo should be it comes from all content but doesn't work in content that can't get echo. Best case, everyone gets to have fun.

let me start by saying that was an example. It doesnt have to be that way. For instance you can get it from the normal ways such as tome, crafted, etc. Or have other outlets to get gear. take for dungeons allows us to argument the gear from there to the current lvl or something