Non-binary gender needs to be added to character customization

[Narissa]

This thread has derailed like so hard into a flame war, am surprised it hasn't been removed/deleted yet.

I honestly dont think SE will ever fully go through with this sorry, with the way its going in the media and with creeps/pe**** (censoring this word for the kids!) 'transitioning' to women to enter ladies/girls bathrooms/locker-rooms freely... to well you know.. its not going well and actual transgendered women are as a result getting ALOT of backlash.

And as for the 'identifying as' .. young children in schools are getting so confused by the whole media flush, that they're claiming to be animals and wanting to be treated/feed as such...

So ya.. its a big media mess and I doubt SE will want to go near that xD But GL!

[DiaDeem]

I honestly dont think SE will ever fully go through with this

It's already a thing in Harvestella's character creator though. You can chose whatever pronouns you want, they/them included.

I don't get why people make much of a big deal of this being an option on anything really. More options = more personalization, and that's always good.

[Theodric]

It's already a thing in Harvestella's character creator though. You can chose whatever pronouns you want, they/them included.

I don't get why people make much of a big deal of this being an option on anything really. More options = more personalization, and that's always good.

A lot of people make a big deal about it - quite rightly - because it often doesn't equal 'more options'.

Last I checked, you can't create a masculine looking character in Harvestella. It was a common criticism of the game during the marketing phase, as I recall.

Even when accounting for FFXIV, I've often found myself left wanting given the disproportionate amount of focus placed on androgynous and feminine hairstyles/outfits as opposed to traditionally masculine ones.

[DiaDeem]

A lot of people make a big deal about it - quite rightly - because it often doesn't equal 'more options'.

Last I checked, you can't create a masculine looking character in Harvestella. It was a common criticism of the game during the marketing phase, as I recall.

Even when accounting for FFXIV, I've often found myself left wanting given the disproportionate amount of focus placed on androgynous and feminine hairstyles/outfits as opposed to traditionally masculine ones.

It definitely is more options. Usually you can only be he/she, and "they" is an added option. There's no reasonable argument to want less options in any character creator. My argument wasn't even about Harvestella "doing it right" or whatever. I merely pointed out that SE has done the pronoun thing before. Want more masculine options? Good, me too. More options is always better. I'm still waiting for the XIV guys to get some REAL proper beard options. Can think of anything else? Because it probably should be added too.

More options, always.

[DPZ2]

Even when accounting for FFXIV, I've often found myself left wanting given the disproportionate amount of focus placed on androgynous and feminine hairstyles/outfits as opposed to traditionally masculine ones.

I found this puzzling, as "traditionally masculine" is so ill-defined at the best of times. "Tradition" is almost entirely cultural, regional, and temporal. And cyclical.

Theodric's avatar, Matthieu, fits in nicely within the 21st century United States yet would have been decidedly derided in mid-20th century United States.

How far back must one go to invoke tradition, and in whose context? Rather than invoke "traditionally masculine" when expressing desires for changes in looks, it is best to be specific about the desired changes and preferences.

Personally, I'd like long hair in-game to not be spoiled by collisions with clothing (I know that's a common complaint here). More facial hair choices for males would be good ... full beards, mustaches that don't look like thin lines, and goatees that are well shaped. Perhaps a contest for artists to provide some feedback about styles that meet approval.

[TitanMenII]

I would fully support SE adding a Type A (masculine) & Type B (feminine) style of emote (and maybe running) animations selectable at the character creation screen, similar to how the Demon's Souls remake handled their character creation. No need for anything else and it would give people slightly more customization without adding a new gender category.

The character creation in general is in dire need of a make over anyway

That is a very nice compromise and will allow bigender players to mix and match their way of expression.

[CornishDinosaur]

A NB student came into my office today and mentioned how they don't feel represented in media. As more people come out as non-binary, like Bella Ramsey (https://gamerant.com/the-last-of-us-...sey-nonbinary/), I think FF14 also has a role in being inclusive with gender identity as more and more people identify as NB, third gender, queergender or genderless:



I hope that Square Enix can make a progressive statement and let the first MMO include non-binary/third gender choices during character customization. If they want to go further, they could even make new racial models that have a queergender aesthetic, like Shadowbringers Urianger, which would allow for deeper customization as even people in the gender binary would also be interested in playing gender-ambiguous characters.

This might have been said before, so apologies for not reading through 24 existing pages :P, but as much as I think this would be lovely for additional player choice and representation, you have to consider the costs in doing so. It's not just adding "playergender=they/them" into texts, there's also the fact FFXIV has an incredible amount of voice acting and, since ARR, most voice actors have been replaced - so not only would they have to have their current voice actors re-record lines to use "they/them", they'd also have to rehire the previous voice actors to do as well.

Unfortunately, your idea of having a third bodychoice for each of the player races, whilst an ideal way to handle gender-non-conforming characters, would also be too costly to prioritise in place of other features. The game already takes enough time giving us female Hrothgar after the wait we had for male Viera, but adding eight new models with options that aren't present in the male/female choices would be a massive undertaking by comparison. If anything, it would be more cost-effective and resourceful to add some sex-locked character creator options into the opposite sex. For an easy example, trans-male Au Ra having female Au Ra horns and vice versa.

Honestly the most realistic way to add trans choices at this point in time is to seperate the existing pronouns from the character's sex and let the players choose them during creation. Everything else would take more resources than many would see worthwhile, dev team included.

TL;DR
Nonbinary representation would be amazing in an already, equally amazing MMO, but considering the resources that would be required, it's unlikely to happen. Seperating the existing pronouns and turning them into a choice during character creation might be the most realistic halfway point.

[TitanMenII]

This might have been said before, so apologies for not reading through 24 existing pages :P, but as much as I think this would be lovely for additional player choice and representation, you have to consider the costs in doing so. It's not just adding "playergender=they/them" into texts, there's also the fact FFXIV has an incredible amount of voice acting and, since ARR, most voice actors have been replaced - so not only would they have to have their current voice actors re-record lines to use "they/them", they'd also have to rehire the previous voice actors to do as well.

Unfortunately, your idea of having a third bodychoice for each of the player races, whilst an ideal way to handle gender-non-conforming characters, would also be too costly to prioritise in place of other features. The game already takes enough time giving us female Hrothgar after the wait we had for male Viera, but adding eight new models with options that aren't present in the male/female choices would be a massive undertaking by comparison. If anything, it would be more cost-effective and resourceful to add some sex-locked character creator options into the opposite sex. For an easy example, trans-male Au Ra having female Au Ra horns and vice versa.

Honestly the most realistic way to add trans choices at this point in time is to seperate the existing pronouns from the character's sex and let the players choose them during creation. Everything else would take more resources than many would see worthwhile, dev team included.

TL;DR
Nonbinary representation would be amazing in an already, equally amazing MMO, but considering the resources that would be required, it's unlikely to happen. Seperating the existing pronouns and turning them into a choice during character creation might be the most realistic halfway point.

Even a halfway point could do wonders for the community. So I support this.

[Darkobra]

Start the timer, lads. Let's see how long this one lasts. We got another one.

[Aword3213]

How dare you be so disrespectful towards the identities of living breathing human beings. Please do not use slurs to describe anyone and stop trying to invalidate the gender or non-gender identities of those around you. Regardless of what anyone identifies as their identity is valid. These people have feelings too.

As a person who identifies as apache helicopter, I am deeply offended by your utter disrespect towards my gender identity.