Healing and mitigation balance issues

[Kes13a]

Having more balanced healing and mitigation within a role doesn't mean jobs have to be identical. But if damage numbers don't take into account how much healing and mitigation a job has, it'll just make some jobs feel useless in all content rather than just a few.

never run across a dev yet that can balance. and the more it is asked for, the more jobs become the same.

even being the same, not everyone plays the same, which means more "balance" to try and offset the good and bad players... so you end up with identical wads of wet toilet paper for a "job" just with different names.

balance is mythical

[Jojoya]

As Yoshi said if you want to enjoy a healer just go do Ultimates... Oh wait we don't need healers for Ultimates. Guess he means "Lul go play something else."

Got a link to your healerless clear?

Don't bother sharing the Casual Player link, I know about that one and it's an outlier based on a specific comp for a group formed by some of the best players in the world.

I'm looking for videos that prove other comps with slightly less skilled players can also go healerless.

[KitingGenbu]

Can I ask a simple question? All jobs can clear all content, can they not?

[Shurrikhan]

Can I ask a simple question? All jobs can clear all content, can they not?

That all jobs are individually able to clear content in a given composition of a given average player quality does not mean...

A. that all party compositions are able to clear all content, nor
B. that all jobs are able to clear content within a typical composition with a group of typical player quality, nor
C. that each job will be permitted in XIV PFs since, relatively small difference or no, why take something unconditionally* inferior?

* After all, each job is so similar to the others in role that most differences do not allow for a different but competitive strategy, but instead simply the same strategy performed better or worse.

I don't think balance is especially a problem right now, but "all jobs can clear (in the right circumstances)" is hardly a mark of decent parity.

[HyonaCookie]

Can I ask a simple question? All jobs can clear all content, can they not?

Just because all jobs can allegedly clear all content, doesn't mean they're viewed as viable in all content. Take for instance criterion dungeons. Barely anyone does them as a DRK unless they are hardcore players who like clearing content on every single job. To everyone else it's basically griefing to bring DRK. If all jobs can clear content, then some jobs are more able to clear content than others.

[Amenara]

Just because all jobs can allegedly clear all content, doesn't mean they're viewed as viable in all content. Take for instance criterion dungeons. Barely anyone does them as a DRK unless they are hardcore players who like clearing content on every single job. To everyone else it's basically griefing to bring DRK. If all jobs can clear content, then some jobs are more able to clear content than others.

So kind of like last tier savage before SE nerfed the final boss how you were griefing by bringing a warrior or paladin since we are on the tank bandwagon.

[GoatOfWar]

Can I ask a simple question? All jobs can clear all content, can they not?

Irrelevant. Why does the job i want to play have to be strictly worse at everything Warrior does?

[Oizen]

Can I ask a simple question? All jobs can clear all content, can they not?

CNJ has cleared The weapon's refrain. All jobs should be balanced around cnj

[Archeron]

Can I ask a simple question? All jobs can clear all content, can they not?

All jobs can clear content, but are all jobs necessary to clear content, when people are clearing ultimates with literally no healers?

[Renathras]

All jobs can clear content, but are all jobs necessary to clear content, when people are clearing ultimates with literally no healers?

To be fair, one group of 8 people is hardly "people are clearing ultimates". It's "people" in the absolute most technical sense of "more than one Human being", but in any realistic sense, it isn't. ONE GROUP doing a thing getting overblown to the point of abject ridiculousness.

NOTE: This isn't me saying encounter design doesn't need changing (I say all the time it does), nor me saying the game doesn't need to require more healing (I say all the time it does), nor me saying Tank and DPS healing and mitigation is fine where it is (I say all the time both need to be reduced) - but the amount of currency in hyperbole people have gotten from the fact one group that INTENSELY focused on a specific fight to figure out how to cheese mechanics with Cover and delayed Raise acceptance along with luck...is abjectly insane. That's like saying "Marathons are easy, a few thousands of people do them all the time", as if everyone was doing it. Or "Anyone can beat the AI Go master, after all, the best Human player in the world played 5 matches against it and won 1, so OBVIOUSLY anyone can do it!"

"But the Ultimate before was cleared with one healer!!" - Yes, also by cheesing things they could, bringing the most versatile Healer Job, having their Tank and DPS heal (like their PLD and RDM were casting Clemency and Vercure), and having to play flawlessly several times in a row until the RNG lined up for them to get the clear. Again, this is not something PEOPLE are doing in a general sense. It again is an argument that encounter designs need changing and Tank/DPS healing and mitigation needs nerfing, but these are exceptions that prove the rule, not rules in themselves.

...sorry. I'm just sick and tired of people seeing one example of a thing from EXTREMELY talented and dedicated people and suddenly deciding it's a game-wide problem when no one else is doing it and the amount of players that even CAN do it is ridiculously small, and most of THEM aren't bothering to try because it's just not worth the trouble. Once one team has done it and proved it's possible, there's literally no incentive for anyone else to try because it's just stupidly inefficient.

People need to stop using those cases as some wider example of reality.

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I agree with your premise, but that example is the dead horse beaten into dust already, and it doesn't even make sense to use it for any rational arguments to begin with.

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OP: I agree in part - Jobs within a role/subrole should not be TOO far apart in what they offer - but not in whole - what you're asking for is bland homogenization. FFXIV's combat system needs to be less rigid and allow for other forms of utility and such before that can seriously be factored in.