r/ffxivdiscussion: What can Square Enix do to help fix the terrible netcode of FFXIV?

[R041]

XIV doesn't even need to trust the client for that specific issue. It's why those TOS-breakers work; it's all a client-side fix. When your client asks the server for permission to use an ability, XIV's client (stupidly) behaves the same way for both an affirmative and a negative response. This creates latency where it doesn't need to exist. Many modern online games have clients that take action only on a negative response. The only change that needs to be made to fix it is updating the client's behavior to ignore a positive response instead of rolling back your animation lock in both cases.

I'm pretty sure server also doesn't have position prediction. So the movement ticks are stepped locations and not assumed path, which is so archaic in online games alone. Client has linear position interpolation, but that's different obv. They don't even need to relay the prediction, just act as server side position interpolation for damage authority so we aren't literally getting exploded for something that happened between packet + tick alignment. It just feels bad, especially for a game that relies so heavily on a low tickrate architecture.

Also considering the amount of.. Issues.. (PvP speed, Bots) We see with movement, we know the server doesn't have true authority on player movement and it likely just does OOB valid checks (like most MMOs). The player's movement wouldn't be as client snappy if it was 100% server authority. You'd either feel like you're in molasses, or jittery the higher latency you have. But you don't. Ex: https://youtu.be/2PTdjwlO5nU

XIV's server barely cares what time you did the thing, it unravels the ball of spaghetti in it's wide packet and tick intervals and just kinda hopes for the best apparently. Do we even know if it uses timestamps in the payload, or is it just setting things as high/low priority? :/

Counterstrike 2 is implementing 'sub-tick' prediction. CS2 not only uses server side prediction, but also larger packets to help unravel the spaghetti and assist with those extremely fast predictions.

[Ransu]

It is yes, but other games must do something different since it only happens to this degree in FFXIV for me. Lag is often a thing in other games but not to the degree that combat is simply an exercise in frustration.

It's not a lot of fun when the lag / latency / ping is a mechanic in itself.

Not really. If you play WoW or other MMO's it would do the exact same thing as that video you posted. This is just how general networking works. In shooters they use a higher tick rate (sometimes) and use background checks server side to update information and basically take a guess on the players position. Its why sometimes you die when you were clearly behind a wall. Latency is a thing and it will always be nearly impossible to completely hide it regardless of how fast internet connections get. This games netcode isn't anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

Lol? People actually believe this?

Yes because I work in IT and we experienced the same problem. It was impossible to get any kind of server hardware. New cisco 9000 series switches were over 12 months out for availability and the only way to get one was to pay way over market price. Same with servers and practically everything else. We had to go after refurbed dell servers to get our new network up and running because it was all we had access to.

[Semirhage]

and it likely just does OOB valid checks (like most MMOs)

They don't even do that. Check an RMT bot heavy day, watch them do the MSQ. They just warp around at will, often under the map. Figuring out how to get out of bounds manually is pretty fun (and it's fascinating how much time Square spends on patching things related to it that give literally *zero* in-game advantage over things like...hats not displaying on one of their races or the horrible job design), but if the goal behind poking at invisible walls was to just be out of bounds? I've never done it myself, but I wholeheartedly believe the bot-advertised ability to just...tell the server "I'm at X:0 Y:0 Z: -5" and poof, you're there.

[R041]

They don't even do that. Check an RMT bot heavy day, watch them do the MSQ. They just warp around at will, often under the map. Figuring out how to get out of bounds manually is pretty fun (and it's fascinating how much time Square spends on patching things related to it that give literally *zero* in-game advantage over things like...hats not displaying on one of their races or the horrible job design), but if the goal behind poking at invisible walls was to just be out of bounds? I've never done it myself, but I wholeheartedly believe the bot-advertised ability to just...tell the server "I'm at X:0 Y:0 Z: -5" and poof, you're there.

Yeah, conditional OOB checks I guess, like we see in raid. lol

I see those fools under the floor for hours, so there's literally nothing actively pinging coords for OOB unless you trigger it through a mechanic or something. Also housing.. All of housing suffers from OOB issues. (Which we use for fun, but still)

It's just embarrassing and makes it seem like XIV lacks server side collision and movement prediction altogether.

[SwordBreakerX]

Im no expert on network side of PC im more of the dude that build and repair PC´s. But I Remember an old mmo I love to play now and then and some one asked could the company not do anything about the awful rubber banding and lag the game has. And some one had a simple explanation that the game is way to old and they could maybe do some kind of fix but no really solve the problem with out having to basically remake the game or transfer it to a newer engine with newer fresher code. And I seen the same discussion with eve online people talk about fixing things or adding new things but becuse the game is old the devs have to try fix things or add new things by trying to work around old spaghetti code and it´s allot of work to do and some times not even worth trying to do. So in the end some new features people want to see can´t be implemented becuse of the old code.

And believe it or not FFXIV is starting to become rather old and I bet new features or fixes would take allot of time to do becuse of well old engine and old codes.

As I said i´m no expert what so ever with network or software im just relaying something I heard more knowledge people than me say about old mmos.

[Denji]

Lol? People actually believe this?

bro a raspberry pi 4* costs 200-300 bucks rn and car companies were buying brand new washing machines just to rip out the guts because they had compatible chips.
i got a low-end education laptop for a hundred bucks back in december because every store mass-ordered thousands of them because people needed to work from home and when all the back orders were finally fulfilled there was a flood of extra-crappy laptops on the market. i also bought an AC just a couple days ago that's -entirely- mechanical. the most recent piece of tech in it is the green LED followed by the brushless motor in the fan.
it was bad. really bad. they weren't the only company that were in actual bidding wars just for hardware and we're still in the thick of it. it'll be a few years before things go back to normal.

[Fiel_Tana]

Not really. If you play WoW or other MMO's it would do the exact same thing as that video you posted. This is just how general networking works. In shooters they use a higher tick rate (sometimes) and use background checks server side to update information and basically take a guess on the players position. Its why sometimes you die when you were clearly behind a wall. Latency is a thing and it will always be nearly impossible to completely hide it regardless of how fast internet connections get. This games netcode isn't anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

Are you meaning to reply to someone else because I didn't post a video. Also I have played WoW and many other MMOs and no, they do not have the same issues FFXIV does that are being talked about in this thread. Occasional lag and even rubberbanding at times, yes, that is often the connection between player and server or at times a slow computer. What is being talked about here are entirely different issues.

[Ransu]

The video specifically posted in the OP. That scenario occurs in every mmo.

[GaiusDrakon]

bro a raspberry pi 4* costs 200-300 bucks rn and car companies were buying brand new washing machines just to rip out the guts because they had compatible chips.
i got a low-end education laptop for a hundred bucks back in december because every store mass-ordered thousands of them because people needed to work from home and when all the back orders were finally fulfilled there was a flood of extra-crappy laptops on the market. i also bought an AC just a couple days ago that's -entirely- mechanical. the most recent piece of tech in it is the green LED followed by the brushless motor in the fan.
it was bad. really bad. they weren't the only company that were in actual bidding wars just for hardware and we're still in the thick of it. it'll be a few years before things go back to normal.

Yes because I work in IT and we experienced the same problem. It was impossible to get any kind of server hardware. New cisco 9000 series switches were over 12 months out for availability and the only way to get one was to pay way over market price. Same with servers and practically everything else. We had to go after refurbed dell servers to get our new network up and running because it was all we had access to.

?_?

The market price went up because there's a shortage... no one calls that going "above the market price". Do you people not believe in supply and demand or some shit lmao

[grinkdaboy]

the japanese are not good with the cyber please understand