r/ffxivdiscussion: What can Square Enix do to help fix the terrible netcode of FFXIV?

[Sebazy]

Ping isn't really the issue here. It boils down to tick rate and throttling performance to keep server loads and costs in check.

SE have historically always been super cautious on all aspects of the infrastructure behind their MMOs:

Remember how unsubbing for a period of time in FFXI would get your character data literally removed from the live servers and swapped to cold storage? You had to contact them and politely ask to have your character manually restored originally.

FFXIV has always had a slow GCD and tick rate, both means to significantly lower CPU load. Another area where they saved server CPU cycles was launching the game with comical levels of client trust.

Memory usage? IMHO that's one of the real reasons we don't get a proper glamour log style system. It would require the addition of several extra data arrays per character, adding to the footprint noticeably when you're talking a few hundred characters per zone.

In WoW I had a better experience PvPing with ~200ms latency from the UK to US west coast servers. I PvP'd pretty much exclusively through Vanilla and BC to the highest level and had no problems whatsoever. It was only when WotLK and Arena landed that the ping gave me problems and that was specifically down to the amount of precision needed to pillar block long enough to get out of combat drinking in. No rubber banding, things didn't hit me when it felt like they shouldn't. I had no problems grounding pom pyros etc.

FFXIV PvP is just a lower quality experience all round because SE aren't willing to foot the bill on the backend with a faster update rate.

[CStrife912]

Any troll saying that S-E wouldn’t buy servers cause it would cost too much and lol they wont pay above market value. End of the day so many things use semi conductors. There was mass shortage and then of course it’s supply and demand but a games publisher isn’t going to compete with say a car manufacturer who need them for their on board computers for their production cars cause most use the same parts. You can only offer so much money and be outbid by others. Thankfully that whole side of things has stabilised and we’re seeing them upgrade and replace their hardware.

I also would imagine any change to tick rate or cooldowns or anything that side of things would be an expansion release not a patch. So if I want to inhale the copium for a minute let’s see what fanfest brings. If nothing is mentioned then by all means people can continue to voice their concern and frustration with their approach to net coding. Remember the japs can make a super fancy music playing toilet but a functioning website? No…

[Shinkuno]

Any troll saying that S-E wouldn’t buy servers cause it would cost too much and lol they wont pay above market value. End of the day so many things use semi conductors. There was mass shortage and then of course it’s supply and demand but a games publisher isn’t going to compete with say a car manufacturer who need them for their on board computers for their production cars cause most use the same parts. You can only offer so much money and be outbid by others. Thankfully that whole side of things has stabilised and we’re seeing them upgrade and replace their hardware.

I also would imagine any change to tick rate or cooldowns or anything that side of things would be an expansion release not a patch. So if I want to inhale the copium for a minute let’s see what fanfest brings. If nothing is mentioned then by all means people can continue to voice their concern and frustration with their approach to net coding. Remember the japs can make a super fancy music playing toilet but a functioning website? No…

Covid isnt a excuse when the servers have been bad for YEARS. It would have been if the servers suddenly gone bad during covid and they had to get replacement asap. They twisted their thumbs for years because of it doesnt affect the JP playerbase they dont care.

[R041]

Any troll saying that S-E wouldn’t buy servers cause it would cost too much and lol they wont pay above market value. End of the day so many things use semi conductors. There was mass shortage and then of course it’s supply and demand but a games publisher isn’t going to compete with say a car manufacturer who need them for their on board computers for their production cars cause most use the same parts. You can only offer so much money and be outbid by others. Thankfully that whole side of things has stabilised and we’re seeing them upgrade and replace their hardware.

I also would imagine any change to tick rate or cooldowns or anything that side of things would be an expansion release not a patch. So if I want to inhale the copium for a minute let’s see what fanfest brings. If nothing is mentioned then by all means people can continue to voice their concern and frustration with their approach to net coding. Remember the japs can make a super fancy music playing toilet but a functioning website? No…

We can't blame Covid for an issue that's been prevalent for a decade.

They've likely had powerful enough servers to handle player movement prediction and timestamped actions to tell the server "No he didn't step in that, check my receipt".. It's just effort they haven't bothered with for 10 years, and an army of writers is cheaper than an army of engineers.

But you're right that, maybe.. Considering they're putting money into other upgrades, just maybe they'll do something about that damned AoE that clipped me 4 seconds ago. lol


Edit: I want to reiterate - There ARE ways to improve our experience while still having low tick servers. There are several ways to go about it, and they can combine multiple methods to make it even better. Increasing tick rate isn't the only option. Online Games are all about smoke and mirrors, as long as it doesn't frustrate the player. What they're doing right now is no smoke, no mirror, all frustration.

[kpxmanifesto]

Necroing this post so I don't have to make a completely new one. Another somewhat interesting thread about netcode issues was created today in /r/ffxivdiscussion. I'll also update the original post of this thread with the link.

Crosspost from /r/ffxivdiscussion: Does it bother anyone else how there's a visible running and walking delay on other players?

Original post: It always urks me watching people running and walking in place and how clunky people turn and move. Is this a result of this tick rate thing I've heard of?

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...res_a_visible/

Feel free to have a look yourselves. I'm just glad more and more people are voicing their concerns about the game's awful netcode.

[TheNight]

Necroing this post so I don't have to make a completely new one. Another somewhat interesting thread about netcode issues was created today in /r/ffxivdiscussion. I'll also update the original post of this thread with the link.

Crosspost from /r/ffxivdiscussion: Does it bother anyone else how there's a visible running and walking delay on other players?

Original post: It always urks me watching people running and walking in place and how clunky people turn and move. Is this a result of this tick rate thing I've heard of?

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...res_a_visible/

Feel free to have a look yourselves. I'm just glad more and more people are voicing their concerns about the game's awful netcode.

They'll never fix it because simps will defend the bad netcode. There are people who will unironically tell you to your face that this game is the most responsive MMO on the market.

[Amnmaat]

FFXIV is still using netcode from 2001. Yes, it uses FFXI's netcode where the server has to ping the user before anything happens in the game. This is why there's no real private servers out there, everything has to be approved in the server itself before you see it happen on your screen. It's a server-side game.

Client-sided games are more direct; what you do on your screen happens immediately and then gets approved by the server; this lowers delay because you can keep sending data over.

[Sindele]

The only reason private servers for FF14 don't exist is that nobody wants to undertake the unspeakable enormity of scripting. SE doesn't invalidate quite enough stuff to really motivate the proper obsessives. "Walking simulator" versions of FF14 server emulators have existed for a very long time, in various stages of disrepair at different points in time.

[UkcsAlias]

FFXIV is still using netcode from 2001.

Thats not an excuse for bad netcode. Netcode is something that falls under basic management. Just like when adding extra content you might run into memory issues (compression, RAM management), making sure the netcode doesnt cause lag is a thing that needs to be maintained over time.

That client side data needs to get approved before the movement takes place is trivial for netcode. The client doesnt need to wait for this, they can just move and send the updates, only when the diffirence between client and server expectation exceeds a treshold it can rebound you to the proper position the server stated. This is called lag compensation and is a massive balance factor for netcode. Without it playing online will cause people to get nausea as lag in movement towards expectation is quite inconvenient (this is why some people in racing games can get dizzy when in cockpit view). Good netcode only corrects upon detecting errors, and this game already does that.

The real problem is that we get delayed information, and simply do not get the delay added upon the lag compensation. Causing a lot of mechanics to feel unfair since the server already decided you got hit while on your screen it was a miss. And worse is, this gap can be 1s. That is simply not acceptable. In that second you can get several roundbacks in pinging. The game is highly unreliable in showing you proper information. Which means that a lot of AoE markers just arent reliable information on knowing when the hit takes place. Causing a lot of mechanics that could have been a plain dodge system, now need to show the information well ahead in time (and often it does through boss animations).

But this bad netcode caused 1 good thing: it realy pushed the 'boss animation is relaible' part where markers are just to hint about its impact shape etc. Even if the netcode improves, that design shouldnt change. I dont want a 'its down to reflexes' everywhere.

[ChonkGoblinSuprem]

I’ve just about filled out my games forum bs whining bingo card.

“muh bad netcode” ✅