r/ffxivdiscussion: What can Square Enix do to help fix the terrible netcode of FFXIV?

[kpxmanifesto]

Cross-posting this from the r/ffxivdiscussion subreddit. The comments have some pretty good insight on the game's netcode and server architecture and why the game's latency and response time can feel sluggish/janky at times.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus..._the_terrible/

Original post:

The netcode in this game is quite awful. Every time I see someone's character on my screen I'm actually seeing where they were 0.5-1 second ago because the client receives character position data from the server so slowly. This is especially an issue in PVP when you're a melee class trying to chase down an opponent.

Also a poster from the slidecasting thread linked the youtube video: https://youtu.be/hToWKu79Jm0

One characters jump animation on the first computer is already complete by the time the 2nd computer even sees that character start its jump animation. Why is the time difference between seeing the character jump animations on the two computers so large? I'm assuming they're on the same network because both of those computers are in the same house.

It sounds a lot like this is also the reason why slidecasting exists. I saw from the slidecasting thread that slidecasting is "effectively taking advantage of the gap between the spell cast being completed on the server side and on the client side." Why is that gap so large and what can SE do to resolve that?

Is a fix for something like this plausible, or would it be too difficult for SE because it would consume too much time and resources?

Edit:

Some notes gathered from this discussion -

Poor netcode and player position update rate were intentionally designed as a crutch to prevent server overload.

Current server architecture is too old and inefficient to handle increased player update rate frequency.

Square Enix thinks fixing inadequate netcode/servers would cost too much money and time and won't significantly increase profits.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's some additional links from a user's comment that I thought was worth mentioning:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/119219

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/444667

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/112171

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/461667

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update 8/9/2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...res_a_visible/

Another post with more discussion on FFXIV netcode.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves as well. Cheers.


Edit: Copying other poster's comments that have some good information to my original post.

Ping isn't really the issue here. It boils down to tick rate and throttling performance to keep server loads and costs in check.

SE have historically always been super cautious on all aspects of the infrastructure behind their MMOs:

Remember how unsubbing for a period of time in FFXI would get your character data literally removed from the live servers and swapped to cold storage? You had to contact them and politely ask to have your character manually restored originally.

FFXIV has always had a slow GCD and tick rate, both means to significantly lower CPU load. Another area where they saved server CPU cycles was launching the game with comical levels of client trust.

Memory usage? IMHO that's one of the real reasons we don't get a proper glamour log style system. It would require the addition of several extra data arrays per character, adding to the footprint noticeably when you're talking a few hundred characters per zone.

In WoW I had a better experience PvPing with ~200ms latency from the UK to US west coast servers. I PvP'd pretty much exclusively through Vanilla and BC to the highest level and had no problems whatsoever. It was only when WotLK and Arena landed that the ping gave me problems and that was specifically down to the amount of precision needed to pillar block long enough to get out of combat drinking in. No rubber banding, things didn't hit me when it felt like they shouldn't. I had no problems grounding pom pyros etc.

FFXIV PvP is just a lower quality experience all round because SE aren't willing to foot the bill on the backend with a faster update rate.

[GaiusDrakon]

lmao they wont ever fix it because they're lazy and they dont want to invest in this game

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

lmao they wont ever fix it because they're lazy and they dont want to invest in this game

I mean, hiring new devs and adding more voice acting than before is definitely not investing at all in the game. You know, the most expensive parts of game development.


But OK. Its way easy to just fix all these underlying engine issues.

[UkcsAlias]

You know, the most expensive parts of game development.

Knowing from even basic mapping, a single map can easily take a months to make. There are several aspects to consider:
- Flow: it must be played smoothly - these days even more when those areas become walkable later on. No strange edges in which you can get stuck, no strange clipping.
- Visuals: artwork costs money, and each model for an enemy takes extra time
- Bossfights: these take extra attention to mechanics
- Optimizing: you realy dont want fps dips to happen

It can easily take 6 months of hours to make a single dungeon (and sure, with 6 people thats a month and we only consider 8h/day). But there are at least 6 in the MSQ. So again, 6 people for 6 months, and note, these arent the cheapest devs. Map making and game artwork are relatively expensive things since its not just 'making it look nice'. Optimizing is a skill too much modelers realy dont know. And that while for a voice actor, they can most likely do all the lines in a day already, with maybe a few more short sessions afterward to redo out of tune lines.
And note, this excludes basic enemy design and generic models that are made in the open world maps. And fate, sidequests and other world activities also take time as again they need an area in the map.

If they say its the most expensive, it usualy just means 1 or 2 voice actors that are pushing the price up quite hard. But knowing how easily they replaced some voice actors... nah... unlikely they are this expensive. Its however the most notible expense they have, making that the reason to push it in marketing.

The most expensive part in game design is making the engine itself. And netcode is part of that, thats why it never was fixed. Any change to the engine has effects on the entire game, and require complete playtests to ensure things dont break. A single and simple change can easily cost weeks to test. Thats why most games try to delay engine upgrades as late as possible, they are expensive.

[Sir_Tonberry]

I mean, hiring new devs and adding more voice acting than before is definitely not investing at all in the game. You know, the most expensive parts of game development.


But OK. Its way easy to just fix all these underlying engine issues.

Off topic but I think your character is very cute. 10/10

[Boblawblah]

Off topic but I think your character is very cute. 10/10

[Denji]

Just be glad you didn't have to do titan hard back in the day when it was new.

It was so bad back then that even as someone who lived like 20 minutes away from the og data centre I had to memorize the mechanics to the point of predicting them before they occurred simply because of just how much latency there was due to the tick rate. You'd be a solid 3-4 seconds (give or take a couple hundred ms) out of an aoe and it'd still consider you in it and you'd be thrown off the edge without his line aoe landing even remotely near you.

They then "improved" it at some point... I don't remember when but I think it was either before or during hw and it was just barely good enough... that said, I doubt it'll ever be fixed without a complete rework of casting tho. Slidecasting is almost a requirement nowadays.

[Luluna]

Just be glad you didn't have to do titan hard back in the day when it was new.

It was so bad back then that even as someone who lived like 20 minutes away from the og data centre I had to memorize the mechanics to the point of predicting them before they occurred simply because of just how much latency there was due to the tick rate. You'd be a solid 3-4 seconds (give or take a couple hundred ms) out of an aoe and it'd still consider you in it and you'd be thrown off the edge without his line aoe landing even remotely near you.

They then "improved" it at some point... I don't remember when but I think it was either before or during hw and it was just barely good enough... that said, I doubt it'll ever be fixed without a complete rework of casting tho. Slidecasting is almost a requirement nowadays.

lol I remember those days! Was terrible lol. I also remember Ifrit being really bad there are a few vids on You tube that show us fighting and how everything is always out of sync. I miss the old days but not the lag.

[GaiusDrakon]

I mean, hiring new devs and adding more voice acting than before is definitely not investing at all in the game. You know, the most expensive parts of game development.


But OK. Its way easy to just fix all these underlying engine issues.

Unironically believing in SE's PR lies