Please add item level sync to older trials.

[SargeTheSeagull]

So with 6.4 being out and people having gear above 640, the last 6.0 trial can be defeated before even the first line of dialogue in the second phase. This has been an issue with older trials for a while now but it's getting really bad. This makes older trials, especially MSQ trials feel hilariously undertuned. I mean imagine being a sprout, getting to Thordan, being mentally prepared for a 10 minute slugfest to cap off the masterpiece of a story that was 3.0's MSQ and kicking Thordan's teeth in in less than three minutes. This is beginning to really affect how enjoyable roulettes feel and I imagine it makes a lot of poignant encounters feel really flat. Honestly just adding item level sync to trials would make roulettes a lot more fun and, importantly, make the story hit harder for newer players.

[ForsakenRoe]

Gonna be weird when thanks to 7.0's ridiculous potency bloat (following from 6.0's already ridiculous potency bloat), we actually beat the fight before the scripted add phase gets to start

I get a bit sad every time I get Shinryu in trials because of how fast it dies now. My first time through, we were down to 3 platforms out of the 9, and one of those was the middle one. Now the big sod's lucky if he's able to get to break just one

Oh and Hades too. If the fight were tuned properly, the light protecting you as he does his enrage stuff ('that light split the world, and every life upon it!') would be overwhelmed by the darkness, and it becomes an actually tough heal check, as the bleed hurts like hell. Fight hits less hard literally and metaphorically when you just blast him, and his darkness doesn't even get to encroach on your light even once

Problem is, and UCOB shows this perfectly: ILVL is not the cause, it's the potency creep. Maybe they need to throw a buff on the bosses to give them a 'reverse Blessing of Light', to supercharge them the same way we get supercharged when doing solo instances

[Tehmon]

Agreed. I often look at new players going through the story, and Thordan is always so anticlimactic even though visually and story-wise it's an extremely thrilling moment. But when you have roided up team members whacking him to 10% before he even does anything, and Knights of the Round phase doesn't even deal any freaking damage, it creates false expectations of how the game is going further and how much it demands of players (cue in several wipes in Titania because you actually have to pay a little bit attention, deal damage, heal and be at least somewhat organized) or can otherwise just can leave an '' that's it? '' impression on new players.

[Boblawblah]

I'm not convinced that new players are leaving the game because trials are too easy. Does anyone have any data that might suggest that new players are indeed frustrated by the lack of difficulty in MSQ trials/dungeons?

[Tehmon]

I'm not convinced that new players are leaving the game because trials are too easy. Does anyone have any data that might suggest that new players are indeed frustrated by the lack of difficulty in MSQ trials/dungeons?

It's not about them leaving the game, it's about delivering a well-rounded experience which includes an exciting final trial for a very emotional story that is coming to it's conclusion (partially). I doubt anyone drops the game just because Thordan or other early expansion trials are pushovers these days, but it certainly doesn't ADD to the experience that they are pushovers.

[Boblawblah]

It's not about them leaving the game, it's about delivering a well-rounded experience which includes an exciting final trial for a very emotional story that is coming to it's conclusion (partially). I doubt anyone drops the game just because Thordan or other early expansion trials are pushovers these days, but it certainly doesn't ADD to the experience that they are pushovers.

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

[EderTheBro]

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

Absolutely asinine counterargument.

This is what happens when people are contrarian SE defenders for the sake of being contrarian SE defenders.

From experience it seems to be the opposite. Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go. They wouldn't like it if things were capped and it was not a guaranteed kill every time.
You can see how people reacted to the 2nd and 3rd Endwalker Trials or Seat of Sacrifice Normal to see what would happen, people would unequip gear to not get those on their roulette or would immediately leave on loading in and seeing the duty title. Most existing players wouldn't tolerate more than 1-2 pulls of any content that's not the current endgame.

The solution is to make older trials harder as well.

Apart from this: It *is* an MMORPG and as much as many people who have been with us for a while like to dismiss it, new people sign up every day and experience the MSQ for the first time. They shouldn't be punished for not being able to play this game ten years ago and on every release day/patch day since. Especially not in a game that says "everyone can play it at their own pace" and "no content is truly obsolete" as part of their unique selling point. If content being dated is making the MSQ experience disappointing in a story heavy game from a story heavy franchise, it's on the devs to do something against it. And considering they already did this with dungeons with item level sync and lately also some reworks, I really don't see why they shouldn't do this with trials either. At least for MSQ relevant trials like Thordan, Seat of Sacrifice or Endsinger. (I don't really mind not seeing all phases of the Four Lords trials or the Warring Triad, because they are not MSQ, but the more the merrier.)

This, and also literally why do so many 'veterans" prefer faceroll trial roulettes? They're clearly only doing it for the tomes, not because it's fun. Ironically many of the same FF14 white knights only do content because of the carrot and not because of the innate fun of the content. Having harder trial roulettes means it's actually fun again; good for the "veterans" who actually want to play a game and not just play Poetics Farming Simulator 2017.

The only reason why so many people are against this is because they don't actually enjoy FF14 as a game. They are addicted to farming poetics and completing a checklist. They want to finish their homework ASAP and don't want Thordan to take more than 3 minutes. To these people: go play a KMMO or some shit, or maybe just go get your actual IRL chores done. The devs should literally completely ignore this group of players.

[MsMisato]

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

honestly the people that I have done min ilvl trails and raids with they had fun despite it being hard. soo I think the MSQ should be ilvl sync maybe Not min ilvl, but maybe the max ilvl that was available for that trail at the time of release. good example is CT. at max it should be ilvl synced to a hard cap on ilvl 80, 90, 110 respectively for those 3 raids for example. I also think they need to rework the rewards for it to be appropriate for those running roulette especially for higher level content.

But it was hilarious getting to watch people flailing about not knowing mechanics. when we we did lota min ilvl and wiped so many times on King Behemoth. I don't it was awesome to see people witness the mechanics and get through those trails. I was fortunate to do alot of the content at their respective ilvls when those trails and such released.

I don't like unsyncing things off the bat and its sad to see the mentality of like NN mentors and such running everything unsynced. its off putting.

[VerdeLuck]

It's not about them leaving the game, it's about delivering a well-rounded experience which includes an exciting final trial for a very emotional story that is coming to it's conclusion (partially). I doubt anyone drops the game just because Thordan or other early expansion trials are pushovers these days, but it certainly doesn't ADD to the experience that they are pushovers.

From experience it seems to be the opposite. Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go. They wouldn't like it if things were capped and it was not a guaranteed kill every time.
You can see how people reacted to the 2nd and 3rd Endwalker Trials or Seat of Sacrifice Normal to see what would happen, people would unequip gear to not get those on their roulette or would immediately leave on loading in and seeing the duty title. Most existing players wouldn't tolerate more than 1-2 pulls of any content that's not the current endgame.

[UkcsAlias]

Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go.

Giving bosses more health, while not increasing its damage will still make them beat it in 1 go, but will also ensure that all phases can be executed. For the sake of simplicity they could even give fixed tresholds with an invuln (or very high resistance) to avoid too quick deaths. Not everything needs to be scaled up, but skipping a phase entirely just shouldnt happen.