Zodiark's Codex entry what do we think about it?

[Kozh]

That doesn't explain why or how all the shards ended with the same result in races. The first only has two races that were made by others. The pixies and fuath are the result of souls being weird. Though technically the pixies were/are constructs as there was a quest dealing with them in Elpis. What makes more sense is if the new races were the new life/generation that came about after the 2nd sacrifice. As it also explains partially why there are more who can't awaken to the echo due to being born post final days as seeing a star shower tends to be the key. Than there are those who are capable of reawakening to the echo. The other is more new souls over time were made.

Are you going to ignore Word of God, aka Yoshi-p explanation of this issue? Please watch the lore Q&A, he said there that the current races are result of evolution due to compensation of weakness.

Sure the excuse is weak as hell, after all imagine going from hyur-like body into Lalafell, but clearly this is what happens when you don't plan your story from the start and because of meta-reasoning. The playable races are a thing from 1.0, viera is because many people ask for it (and hroth is, idk, Yoshi-p wants it because wow have beast race too).

[SannaR]

I don't think we've been given an update on that @Lurina or at least I haven't seen anything from the interviews and other Live Letters we have seen since that question was asked. If there has been something from Oda or from one of the other writers more familiar with the lore about such topic then I would love to see it.

[Brinne]

If there's no update, then by default all we can do is assume that statement stands.

I think overall, however, it's at the point where everyone has to confront and accept that the devs are never, ever going to actually and truly clarify the nature of the "new lives." Both because, once again, they do not actually matter in terms of Venat's decision-making, the reason events played out as they did - and therefore discussing them is a materially fruitless thought exercise about how you perceive the Ancients. The other reason they will never be clarified clearly is because the devs' first and foremost priority is to keep all characters involved lovable.

So I honestly do not see the point in continuing to try to make something of the subject, beyond it being yet another hole in the writing. Which it sure is.

[tokinokanatae]

It's not a matter of decorum, it's a matter of making it clear that even if I don't agree with Cleretic on literally anything, she doesn't deserve having that kind of language and vitriol directed at her.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

Just report him, he is not somebody we need in this thread when all of his posts can just come across as brash and insulting. Such an individual should not be here in the Lore subforums, where we at least TRY to have decorum.

It's not a matter of decorum, it's a matter of making it clear that even if I don't agree with Cleretic on literally anything, she doesn't deserve having that kind of language and vitriol directed at her.

Would it be within reason to assume that what is being implied here is that the decorum in question is more present when put into comparison with, say.... General Discussion?

Anyway, I'm sorry this topic has devolved into such pure, inexcusable Pandaemonium. I'd offer.... well. I don't even know, even if I had something. I just hope the situation improves. It's rather absurd to make presumptions as to what any given person deserves, though. Air your grievances if you must, but it's never wrong to remain cordial about it.

[Thenightvortex]

Would it be within reason to assume that what is being implied here is that the decorum in question is more present when put into comparison with, say.... General Discussion?

Anyway, I'm sorry this topic has devolved into such pure, inexcusable Pandaemonium. I'd offer.... well. I don't even know, even if I had something. I just hope the situation improves. It's rather absurd to make presumptions as to what any given person deserves, though. Air your grievances if you must, but it's never wrong to remain cordial about it.

Hey, actually Pandaemonium is quite cool, well the first two tiers of it at least.

[Lurina]

Yeah. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad the moderation here is for an official forum. Like, just-pull-the-plug levels.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

This can only end well. Wonder who it may attract.

[RyuDragnier]

Considering Z-Elidibus wasn't outside of Zodiark yet, I think the creations of the new life were exactly how they were supposed to be made by the planet. There's a possibility that Zodiark, who was created to save the planet and safeguard it while acting as its will, didn't even think the Ancients would sacrifice the new life it was creating. After all, they made decisions prior that took the planet's needs into account first and foremost, there was no logical reason to believe they would use that life for something else at the time. It wasn't until the arguments after the 2nd set of sacrifices had happened when Z-Elidibus came into form, meaning the time when Zodiark needed to consult and figure out what was best for all, since the people were now divided when they were once not.

[Lyth]

The story raises a few questions in sequence.

From what we've seen of Amaurot, they were a secular society. It doesn't look like they viewed their Creations with reverence as 'gods' (as you might expect that in a society of Summoners, instead). Yet when they summoned Zodiark, He immediately became the subject of religious worship overnight. That's a bit unusual to begin with.

Zodiark became the 'Will of the Star'. This sounds like a title of some sort, but it's probably better interpreted in the literal sense. When Hydaelyn became the 'Will of the Star', She was within in the lifestream, merged with the center of the planet. Light is associated with tranquility and stasis, which in turn caused the aether around Her to crystallize into the Mothercrystal.

Zodiark employed the powers of darkness, which as Urianger suggests, is 'the pole aligned with activity and growth'. He stopped the Final Days by accelerating the celestial currents (Coriolis effect?), effectively removing the aether free regions where the Final Days were observed to be initiated from. So if he were to rejuvenate the planet after the Final Days, by becoming the 'Will of the Star', then how would he go about it? I would expect that He would simply accelerate the lifestream from within it to bring new souls to life. Whether these new souls were 'inferior life' worth killing or 'equivalent life' is a bit of rhetorical legerdemain, but let's leave that aside as an unknown for now. Let's hope He didn't have His designs set on eating the West Mandra Empire.

And then there comes the decision itself, as described in 'Ere our Curtain Falls':

'The people were divided, unable to decide what to do with the future that now stretched out before them. Many wished to trade the new life which had sprung forth to reclaim those lost in sacrifice to Zodiark. No small number, however, insisted that the fate of our world should be entrusted to those selfsame freshly minted souls. All were at our wits' end.

At once, we saw it, shimmering. It poured out of Zodiark's breast, and resolved into the shape of a man. As he looked us over─mouths agape, no doubt─he gave what passed for an earnest smile.

"Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through."'

So the people were at an impasse over a fairly significant ethical decision around new souls, which again fits in with the above. And then Zodiark, eldest and most powerful of primals, sends out his Heart in the form of Elidibus, to help the Amaurotines 'make the right choice'. And it's very clear that this 'Elidibus' is nothing like the boy we knew prior to his death.

'I opened my eyes to take in my brother's face, but the lips visible below his mask bore no expression. Would he never again show what he felt for us, as he once had so readily? Were those very sentiments long lost?'

We tend to view Zodiark as a sort of passive agent in all this, because by the time we encounter Him, His Heart is dead, and His body gets treated as a mecha suit by Fandaniel before being discarded. We know that primals have their own will and desires. So what was His take on all this? Why did He seek to influence the Amaurotine decisions around the sacrifices? Did He enthrall His people, as primals are wont to do? If so, this isn't anything new compared to what we've seen with the likes of Ifrit and so on, and we would have been obligated to put an end to Him ourselves regardless.