endwalker seen as low point?

[Sheriyana]

Don't get me wrong, EW is bad. Calling it the worst thing in the game's history? I dunno about that especially when we have atrocities like ARR.

The game is functional. The content offered is hollow, combat is bland, and there's still a metric ton of problems under the hood but at least it more or less works. 2.0 had all the current problems and then some.

Did you play during ARR? There was actually a lot to do back then, the game was new so everything felt fresh. We got 3 dungeons per patch. Got ninja in 2.4. Relics actually kept you busy and tome upgrade items outside of savage you had to farm and roll for in the 24 mans, at least for ST, they made the weekly quest for WoD. Maybe the MSQ wasn't great for ARR but it was serviceable enough back then and everyone was gushing about 2.5 (or was it 2.55, probably that) when that came out. Of course they walked pretty much all of that back immediately in HW but at the time people were excited about it.

[Carin-Eri]

Don't get me wrong, EW is bad. Calling it the worst thing in the game's history? I dunno about that especially when we have atrocities like ARR.

The game is functional. The content offered is hollow, combat is bland, and there's still a metric ton of problems under the hood but at least it more or less works. 2.0 had all the current problems and then some.

It can't have been that much of an "atrocity" - the game wouldn't have survived if it had been.

[Remish]

Did you play during ARR? There was actually a lot to do back then, the game was new so everything felt fresh. We got 3 dungeons per patch. Got ninja in 2.4. Relics actually kept you busy and tome upgrade items outside of savage you had to farm and roll for in the 24 mans, at least for ST, they made the weekly quest for WoD. Maybe the MSQ wasn't great for ARR but it was serviceable enough back then and everyone was gushing about 2.5 (or was it 2.55, probably that) when that came out. Of course they walked pretty much all of that back immediately in HW but at the time people were excited about it.

I did play ARR back then and I was incredibly bored by 2.5 and even early 3.1

ARR offered content but it also came with a marid of other problems like how you couldn't get into raids because joining a static was so much harder back then. I Remember the story being so unenaging I didn't even do it until a week before Heavensward. ARR's relic is still the most grueling thing I ever did. Running 200 Brayflox Longstop Hardmodes just for one relic weapon for a single job.

I agree that we do get fewer content today per patch than we did back then. But that content back then wasn't that much better in terms of quality. And without the QoL we have today, the game was in a much worse spot back then. There is so much more freedom now.

[kpxmanifesto]

I wouldn't' say its the lowest point. ARR takes that title by a mile. EW probably rivals Stormblood in disappointment.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Nope.
S - Endwalker and Shadowbringers
A - Heavensward and Stormblood
B - ARR

This is exactly how I'd rate them lol.

[Derio]

I would rate them

S- Shadowbringers and Heavensward
A- Stormblood
B- Endwalker
C- ARR

S being both story and post launch content and performance at the highest level.

Stormblood was good post launch content wise but the the MSQ lacked a tad bit. If SB didnt have such great post launch content it would be a B or C.
Endwalker is a solid B. The story is lackluster and rushed for the main 6.0 patch and you can tell in the pacing. We have had 1 game breaking bug every patch so far in the 6.X series and the post launch content is probably the worst it has ever been considering the relic is simply just turn in tomes.

[R041]

If you're gonna grade all expacs, you need to separate their Content from their MSQ, and by Launch and their Post-Launch.

[Shurrikhan]

In terms of Story:
ShB > HW > SB > EW > ARR

In terms of Content:
SB > ShB >HW > ARR > EW

7.0 better not be more of the same.

About the same estimation here, though with HW, SB, and EW all basically equal for storytelling.



I honestly feel that the amount of brain-muting required to fully enjoy Endwalker's story... was neither new nor unique to Endwalker, that HW's story was slightly overhyped, and StB's story slightly over-condemned.

In all cases, you damn near have to treat the game's implementation of the story as if it were limited to a stage with cobbled-together props, each sort of shitting the bed, props-wise, in different but similarly annoying ways. HW could left zones, especially the Hinterlands, still in great need of fleshing out or further means of engagement; Stormblood massively failed on counts of scale, such that the entire nation of Doma seemed to be sourced by two villages' (one already ruined) worth of people, and the Azim's Steppes frequently-blood-feuding tribes were within a brief jog of each other; Shadowbringers key setting relied, imo, too heavily "Oo, it's our world but not!" often in place of finishing the geopolitical narrative of a dying world and wasted the Waste (all to put the Nier setting somehow inside a random ugly mountain?); and then you have space-probe-bird-girl having a seemingly outsized influence (because the narrative can't seem to decide on the relative power of the Ancients or their creations over the larger universe on the mere basis that it's the... sort-of beginning of everything, and yet also not?), and relegate everyone's and their cat's brain canon on Garlemalde... to a single modestly-sized plot of city outskirts.

In context, those decisions will make some sense, at least in a "best as could be done" sort of way, as in the whole idea is that Garlemalde isn't really anything new or special --just the latest point of another's spear-- or that nihilism is the most essential threat to existence regardless of time and space, etc., etc. But, as it is an explorable space and therefore expected to not just a backdrop for a certain slant of storytelling, that's of course going to be a shortfall.

[Kaurhz]

If you're gonna grade all expacs, you need to separate their Content from their MSQ, and by Launch and their Post-Launch.

This, honestly.

If I had to rate it according to this, for me personally, it would be:

Content:
S - ShB
A - HW, EW
B - SB, ARR.

I rank SB lowly because whilst it had, say, exploratory and deep dungeon, I don't think either of them had enough substance. I felt with Eureka a lot of it largely came down to... I was doing it because of relics, not because exploratory at the time was something grand and revolutionary, at least not until BA anyway, ShB I at least felt semi-comfortable that I was in there because it was somewhat enjoyable and not because of relics... EW I rate highly for a myriad of reasons. If I look at it in terms of enjoyment I think it's appropriate - If I look at it exclusively in terms of replay value then I'd score it a little differently - But I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in that Island and V/C dungeons are still a WIP., Just wish they had more 1-time only steps for the relic. ShB wins here courtesy of having Ishgard Restoration, I've packed more hours into this than most other content, and some of the socializing in Diadem has been great.

Base Story:
S - ShB
A - EW, HW
B - SB, ARR.

Post-patch story:
This is where a little more variance comes into play but...
S - HW
A - SB, ARR (Bloody Banquet carried it so hard. - It had a metric tonne of filler, but the story was still there)
B - ShB, ARR.
F - EW

I rate ShB so lowly because the build-up simply wasn't suited to the format that EW ended up going with, and similarly wasted far too much time on useless towers, and what they did to Elidibus was a straight-up criminal, raw unmitigated tragedy. EW fails because predictable and the whole all trials being tied to MSQ just simply kills it for me. I said it to a friend, but I'll repeat it here, (and this has no bearing on how I feel about 7.0 itself but just the volume of disappointment that I have felt with it), I'm more excited for this story to just be over than I am for experiencing a new one.

[Boblawblah]

I don't have nearly as much to say about rankings as others here. For me it's just

ARR: good, but dragged a bunch
HW: awesome
SB: boring
ShB: good for the most part
EW: good for the most part