Are all the Tanks identical?

[Renathras]

Had someone in the Healer forum say that the Tanks are all the same. Specifically:

WAR still has the exact same template as the other 3 tanks - 1-2-3 combo ~6ish defensive options and a burst rotation - Fell Cleaves.

DRK also has discount Fell Cleave with dark arts spam. It literally is no different.

Now, I'm not hyper hardcore, but I play GNB, PLD, and WAR, and have done so in Extremes as well as casual 4 man and 24 man content, including PLD post 6.3. The Tanks don't really feel "literally no different" to me. Each one felt distinct to me to play, not just in their aesthetics but also their rotations and general feel and flow.

But maybe I just don't play them ENOUGH to notice it, so I thought I'd ask you Tank folks:

Are the Tank Jobs "literally no different"?

[Oizen]

There has been a lot of homogenization between the tanks, to the point where you can overlap a lot of their skills on a hotbar and play them to some level of competence, especially defensively. All tanks have the standard role actions, a 30% mit, a Super Mit with a short CD, a teamwide mit, hell DRK and GNB literally have the exact same skill in Dark Missionary / Heart of Light.

DRK and WAR probably have it the worst, where they both have the same core rotation of 123, build Blood/Beast spend on Bloodspiller/FellCleave, and then Delirium and Inner Release are basically the same skill with the only difference being Delirium restore MP while inner release gives guaranteed crits, but they're both doing the same thing of giving you 3 free BloodSpiller/FellCleaves and as a result at the very core these jobs can feel way more similar than they probably should be.

Its a bit more of a Stretch to say it with PLD or GNB, but as things homogenize more and more all of the tanks basically go about tanking in the exact same fashion. There are differences, but they've become very small and ultimately up to preference of whether or not you want busy jobs like DRK or GNB or more GCD focused jobs like PLD or GNB. I can easily see why someone would feel that they're 4 flavors of the same thing.

[Crater]

Not much difference between hitting your Fell Cleave button 3 GCDs in a row every minute, your Gnashing Fang button 3 GCDs in a row every minute, your Blade combo 3 GCDs in a row every minute, or your Bloodspiller button 3 GCDs in a row every minute. You can turn your pockets inside out looking for differences and you'll find some stuff like Continuation on Gnashing Fang or range/AoE on the Blade combo or a slight risk of overcapping Blood during Delirium+BW - but you'll also turn up even more similarities, like Double Down/Primal Rend/Confiteor all largely being the same skill occuring in unavoidably close proximity to the 3 GCD spam skill.

Not much difference to speak of in the combos between the spam phases, either. Timer management is dead; the PLD rework killed Goring Blade and Surging Tempest is such a thin shade of what used to be that it really doesn't count. What you're left with is basic 1-2-3 filler where roughly every two cycles through the combo, you get a use of an out-of-burst resource spender that hits a little harder. There's some light differences to the structure where Divine Might can't be banked, Solid Barrel technically gives you the resources for a spender after one combo instead of two (and then regulates it with forced timer-based costs to Gnashing Fang and Double Down), but in practice the differences are just splitting hairs.

Defensives are similarly homogenized. You have the short, 'active mitigation' skill, Rampart, a largely-identical 120s defensive cooldown, and then one "unique" class defensive. There's very little difference between the 90s party mitigation skills, or between the invulns.


There's basically one "tank" class that allows you to make two binary choices as to your "spec": You can either pick an offensive-oriented tank with higher APM, more oGCDs, and a stronger 2-minute than 1-minute burst (DRK, GNB) or a defensive-oriented tank with lower APM, consistent 60s burst, and stronger self and party-survivability skills (WAR, PLD). And you can either pick a tank with an always-on 10% damage boost that pools and spends resources (DRK, WAR), or you can pick a tank with a larger, temporary damage buff that centers much more on cooldown timing than resource pooling (PLD, GNB).
You get to choose whether there's pulp and whether it's from concentrate, but one way or another you're drinking orange juice.

[Zairava]

Saying Paladin and Gunbreaker play identical is a bit of a stretch, but any amount of time playing Dark Knight should be enough for you to realize that it plays nearly identical to Warrior.

• Bloodspiller and Quietus are just Fell Cleave and Decimate
• Delirium is just Inner Release but with some slight mp generation instead of direct crits
• Your core rotation is nearly the exact same. You press your 1-2-3, and in both cases you spend your Blood Gauge on Bloodspiller/Quietus just as Warrior would spend their Beast Gauge on Fell Cleave/Decimate to not overcap.

With the MP management being non-existent outside of saving 3k for TBN since they ran over Dark Arts with a parade of 18-wheelers the ONLY difference between DRK and WAR offensively is that DRK has more ogcd's to make their burst busier. That's it.

I could complain for hours about how they neutered DRK's offensive gameplay identity but I'll leave it there to keep it straight and to the point before I bust a blood vessel.

There's the simple and largely non-issue homogenization in that of some defensives.

• All tanks have rampart and reprisal
• Sentinel, Nebula, Shadow Wall, and Vengeance are all 30% mits (with the addition of Vengeance having the incredibly minute potency counterattack attached)
• Every Tank having a relatively powerful CD on a short CD
• Every Tank having a party Mit

Like...could they make Sentinel, Nebula, and Shadow Wall have unique traits like how Vengeance has counterattack damage? sure...but it's basically a non-issue since you never should be using Vengeance for the damage anyway.

[Absurdity]

Like...could they make Sentinel, Nebula, and Shadow Wall have unique traits like how Vengeance has counterattack damage? sure...but it's basically a non-issue since you never should be using Vengeance for the damage anyway.

You actually do use it for damage whenever the fight allows you to, even if the change to Inner Release made it less effective. And why wouldn't anyone use Vengeance also for damage?

Popping it on Toxic Crunch instead of Venomous Mass for example is just free extra damage.


Or the other case where you just pop it during a buff window if you know you won't need it for another 2 minutes...although that scenario has been rare this expansion.

[Zairava]

You actually do use it for damage whenever the fight allows you to, even if the change to Inner Release made it less effective. And why wouldn't anyone use Vengeance also for damage?

Popping it on Toxic Crunch instead of Venomous Mass for example is just free extra damage.

That's sick actually. It should be obvious, but I didn't know it was an active thing people did, guess I just never noticed.

[Oizen]

That's sick actually. It should be obvious, but I didn't know it was an active thing people did, guess I just never noticed.

Well this tier has been pretty heavy on magic damage, which ignores the damage reflect.
Infact I'm pretty sure only p5s has a physical TB and physical autos. Everything else has been Magic

[Rithy255]

I mean yes and no?

They're all way too similar right now for sure, but at the same time they're not quite reskins of each other, I mean look at healer design compared to tanks... theirs where the jobs are the same. In reality they share a lot of the same tools, but have ways to stand out from one another, I think DRK/PLD Stand out quite a lot defensively (not all in good ways mind you)

in terms DPS rotations sure they're very similar and all basically builder spenders now, but a majority of jobs are builder spenders anyway.

[Zeastria]

It's easier to balance something where the core elements stays the same..
All roles ( DPS/TANK/HEAL) have the same core elements in them ( same role,task,goal)..
That's why they can feel the same..bc that's pretty much it..

[CKNovel]

They share a lot of similitudes but they also have their fair share of differences.
To say some feels similar, I can agree. To say they're all identical, that's hyperbolic.

Rotation wise
WAR and DRK will share the same problems when mapping their rotation, except DRK has mana on top of it while WAR will be hardly punished.
PLD will have its own problems to tackle.
GNB will have completely different problems.

DRK is basically an extension of WAR with two or three different things, it's basically the biggest culprit in the "all tanks are similar" debate.

Mitigation wise, it is also different.
GNB will have camouflage being very good against auto-attacks.
DRK will have Dark Mind, short cooldown extremely good against magical tank buster.
PLD is the only tank with 2 raidwide and able to shield itself and its cotank at the same time.
WAR has the amazing holmgang and self-healing capabilities but its unique 90 has no mitigation tied to it unlike Dark Mind or Bulwark.

They have the same base, but to say they're all copy pasted is a massive stretch.
Most houses are rectangular, all of them have a window and a door. It doesn't mean they're all similar.
But it's true they share too much similarities.