DPS should be WAR > GNB > DRK > PLD

[fulminating]

Who cares about balance if it’s not fun.

Vengeance is exactly the kind of token difference there should be more of. Bump the block rate up for sentinel by a negligible amount. Tack a 50p regen onto shadow wall. Give gunbreaker something thematically appropriate but utterly meaningless too. The one minute cooldowns eq/dm/camo/the pld one also broadly achieve the same outcome through different paths.

[Mikey_R]

Who cares about balance if it’s not fun.

Vengeance is exactly the kind of token difference there should be more of. Bump the block rate up for sentinel by a negligible amount. Tack a 50p regen onto shadow wall. Give gunbreaker something thematically appropriate but utterly meaningless too. The one minute cooldowns eq/dm/camo/the pld one also broadly achieve the same outcome through different paths.

Short cooldowns, 90 seconds, raid mit, long cooldowns, all different. The only things the same are Rampart, Reprisal and the 2 min (ex Vengeance).

So really, the majority of defensive cooldowns ARE different from each other, with their own flare, however, people concentrate too heavily on Rampart and Sentinel/Vengeance/Nebula/Shadow Wall to notice the rest.

Also, you need to have some semblance of balance otherwise jobs get excluded from content. Why bring Job A if Job B does everything better.

[Mithron]

As someone who played XI, I was unhappy with 14's DRK at first and how they made it into a tank even though I loved tanking in 14, but when I gave it a fair shot I found I loved it more as a tank and really enjoyed it. In the end, it doesn't matter what our perception is, the devs have intended 14 DRK to be a tank and it will always be that way, so they gave RPR for the "DPS DRK" fans which was really cool.

The most iconic DRK we have in FF is Cecil and no matter how you cut it, he is the designated tank of the party the entire game, especially as a DRK. And I do miss Delirium lowering INT and Rage of Halone lowering STR.

[Cabalabob]

As someone who played XI, I was unhappy with 14's DRK at first and how they made it into a tank even though I loved tanking in 14, but when I gave it a fair shot I found I loved it more as a tank and really enjoyed it. In the end, it doesn't matter what our perception is, the devs have intended 14 DRK to be a tank and it will always be that way, so they gave RPR for the "DPS DRK" fans which was really cool.

The most iconic DRK we have in FF is Cecil and no matter how you cut it, he is the designated tank of the party the entire game, especially as a DRK. And I do miss Delirium lowering INT and Rage of Halone lowering STR.

If we’re talking FFXI, once again, WAR was a basic job that was the middle ground having both berserk and defender to give up defence for attack and vice versa. DRK and PLD were then advanced jobs that leaned into one aspect of the WAR, DRK being an attacker that gave up mostly on defence, PLD being a defender that gave up mostly on attack.

DRK doesn’t have to be a dps to live up to that class fantasy. Even in ffxiv we can see that same pattern, DRK’s rotation is practically just WARs rotation but with extra attack buttons but less utility. A WAR that has given up on defence for more attack.

And Cecil isn’t really a good benchmark for anything because by that logic PLD should be stronger than DRK as it was his direct class upgrade and was better than it in every way even in the remake.

[dspguy]

Given how similar these jobs actually play...

GNB = DRK = WAR = PLD.

The weapon is just glam at this point. Pick what you want to wield and hack and slash with similar rotations/mitigation.

[Rithy255]

Given how similar these jobs actually play...

GNB = DRK = WAR = PLD.

The weapon is just glam at this point. Pick what you want to wield and hack and slash with similar rotations/mitigation.

yeah but I don't think most people want that.
I do think damage differences shouldn't be that much we're talking about 1-2% at max here.

Personally I want meaningful differences Such Jobs as Tanks/healers should express this in their healing/defensive/utility kits, I rather have a Tank feel different but less "viable" then other tanks then be a reskin that practically plays the same.

Realistically 7.0 is either going to double down on EW design or it's going to shift away from it, all I can hope is for the game to be more experimental with how they balance jobs instead of safe and uninteresting.

[dspguy]

yeah but I don't think most people want that.
I do think damage differences shouldn't be that much we're talking about 1-2% at max here.

Personally I want meaningful differences Such Jobs as Tanks/healers should express this in their healing/defensive/utility kits, I rather have a Tank feel different but less "viable" then other tanks then be a reskin that practically plays the same.

Realistically 7.0 is either going to double down on EW design or it's going to shift away from it, all I can hope is for the game to be more experimental with how they balance jobs instead of safe and uninteresting.

I'm not saying it should be like that. I'm saying that's how it is. Given that the toolsets are so similar, they might as well just remove the 4 jobs, replace it with just a single "tank role job" and let you pick your weapon.

[Arohk]

GNB should do the most dps, because it uses a Gun.

[Oizen]

GNB should do the most dps, because it uses a Gun.

Yeah but only once, since they broke the gun

[GoatOfWar]

And utility should be PLD > DRK > GNB > WAR as a result to fulfill proper class fantasy.

Change my mind.

War should be botom 2. It already has so much else going.