Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 47
  1. #1
    Player Mithron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    699
    Character
    Mithron Scarlet
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100

    DPS should be WAR > GNB > DRK > PLD

    And utility should be PLD > DRK > GNB > WAR as a result to fulfill proper class fantasy.

    Change my mind.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    fulminating's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    1,177
    Character
    Wind-up Everyone
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 52
    An argument made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
    Why do you think it should be that way?
    (16)

  3. #3
    Player
    Zordrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    134
    Character
    Zordiark Darkeater
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    I would say

    DRK = GNB > WAR = Paladin

    Less Sustain More Damage

    More Sustain Less Damage

    Just my opinion.
    (5)
    Limited and Exclusive content that gets removed from game is Wasted Content and Developer time in the long run.
    Change my Mind. (You can't)

  4. #4
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,882
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    DPS, utility, and mitigation, and self-sustain should be PLD = WAR = DRK = GNB, unless you feel that your personal shortcomings and insecurities as a player warrant a performance advantage over everyone else. The execution need not be the same, but the capability needs to be on a level playing field. Bring the player, not the job.
    (7)

  5. #5
    Player
    Oizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    playing other games like yoshida intended
    Posts
    2,295
    Character
    Alondite Ragnell
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Yeah but WAR players really would be upset if we deleted Nascent and Bloodwhetting
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player
    aodhan_ofinnegain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    545
    Character
    Aodhan O'finnegain
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    All tanks should contribute the same damage with Crit/DH being and player skill level. Tanks all bring virtually the same thing so I don't see the point in the large disparity in DPS between tanks that was experienced this expansion. ShB was the best balance of tanks, and that should be the bare minimum gold standard of balancing among tanks. The self-sustain is negligible at best in the content that matters, and in dungeons, the self-sustain determines how lazy the healer gets to be, but makes no difference long term.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    Tigore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    345
    Character
    Tigore Collson
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Problem is, WAR has really high survivability with the Bloodwhetting and pretty much has a better Reprisal with the Shake It Off shield / HoT on everyone. I have been told that WAR is doing very well with the damage buffs to Fell Cleave and pretty much is a top damaging tank now. DRK fell off being the one tank with no buffs to damage and everyone else getting attention. It's pretty hard to justify a lower survivability tank to also have lower damage compared to everyone else.

    To make your model a reality, Mithron, WAR may have to give up a lot of the self healing utility from Bloodwhetting, Nascent Flash and Shake It Off. The alternative is to give more self heals / mitigation to GNB and DRK while also putting the healers to sleep even further than how it is now for them >.> I was told that I didn't need much heals when I was fresh for Dead Ends as a WAR about half a year ago. I even commented recently how being overgeared for current Expert roulettes legitimately start to drop Regen from my WHM healing for the tanks. The tanks only need it at the start of big pulls now when we are all geared.

    As a result, increasing the GNB and DRK self heals would not be recommended if the healers are already starting to drop some of their tools in response to the low amount of heals needed. Yes WAR used to be the DPS tank, but we need to consider if it's worth it to drop our Bloodwhetting, Nascent Flash and Shake It Off down some pegs.
    (3)

  8. #8
    Player
    Oizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    playing other games like yoshida intended
    Posts
    2,295
    Character
    Alondite Ragnell
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigore View Post
    Problem is, WAR has really high survivability with the Bloodwhetting and pretty much has a better Reprisal with the Shake It Off shield / HoT on everyone. I have been told that WAR is doing very well with the damage buffs to Fell Cleave and pretty much is a top damaging tank now. DRK fell off being the one tank with no buffs to damage and everyone else getting attention. It's pretty hard to justify a lower survivability tank to also have lower damage compared to everyone else.

    To make your model a reality, Mithron, WAR may have to give up a lot of the self healing utility from Bloodwhetting, Nascent Flash and Shake It Off. The alternative is to give more self heals / mitigation to GNB and DRK while also putting the healers to sleep even further than how it is now for them >.> I was told that I didn't need much heals when I was fresh for Dead Ends as a WAR about half a year ago. I even commented recently how being overgeared for current Expert roulettes legitimately start to drop Regen from my WHM healing for the tanks. The tanks only need it at the start of big pulls now when we are all geared.

    As a result, increasing the GNB and DRK self heals would not be recommended if the healers are already starting to drop some of their tools in response to the low amount of heals needed. Yes WAR used to be the DPS tank, but we need to consider if it's worth it to drop our Bloodwhetting, Nascent Flash and Shake It Off down some pegs.
    We don't actually know what the best tank damage is yet, and likely will not until the end of next week. WAR has always done better immediately after a patch on extreme content than the other tanks, combination of DRK's entire advantage being less in its kit itself and more in its synergy with raid buffs, and WAR not having to spin the wheel as much for crit/dh due to inner release.
    (1)
    Last edited by Oizen; 05-29-2023 at 02:18 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Rithy255's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    1,841
    Character
    Rithris Amaya
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithron View Post
    And utility should be PLD > DRK > GNB > WAR as a result to fulfill proper class fantasy.

    Change my mind.
    I generally agree, people think Warriors sustain matters? when it really doesn't compared to actual Mitigation.

    I'll agree with Paladin lowest if they make the utility better, yeah it has marginally better utility but it's not really that amazing. Things like cover are situational, Clemency is very situational., Ur extra raid wide is a cone so its very fight dependent.
    I'd love Paladin to be a massive support unit but lowest damage.

    Also I kinda want a Dark Knight rework, to be somewhat more supportive then the other two tanks.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player RyuDragnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Gridania
    Posts
    5,465
    Character
    Hayk Farsight
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Oizen View Post
    We don't actually know what the best tank damage is yet, and likely will not until the end of next week. WAR has always done better immediately after a patch on extreme content than the other tanks, combination of DRK's entire advantage being less in its kit itself and more in its synergy with raid buffs, and WAR not having to spin the wheel as much for crit/dh due to inner release.
    We'll find out pretty soon. If DRK ends up below GNB in damage, we may see people drop DRK since GNB would have better damage and better party utility. We already know WAR or PLD will be a shoo-in for the other slot due to their better party mitigation capabilities.
    (1)

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast